As a single, hetereosexual woman, its only natural that I spend some time observing the opposite sex as I go through my travels. Whilst I am not looking for a long-term relationship per se, I do enjoy the company of men (platonic and romantic) and it would be nice to make some friends in my new homeland.
As I am traveling, I most often come across the average man on the street, like the stall owner or rickshaw driver. I must admit that after a few weeks of observing him I found myself almost completely repulsed by men. Whilst he was hardworking and I believe his intentions are good, some of the personal habits I observed left a lot to be desired.
The constant spitting (apparently due to chewing tobacco), public urination (and by this I mean pulling it out anywhere there is space and going), nose picking and staring at me (usually whilst also fiddling with their nether regions) are a few of the distasteful activities I observed. Even if I try and rationalise the behaviour, after all there is a dire lack of sanitation facilities in India hence the need for public urination, looking through my western eyes I found my attraction to men waning.
These behaviours appear to be generally accepted in Indian culture, no one bats an eyelid going about their day. My simplistic explanation on why this behaviour is tolerated comes down to the arranged marriage. The men I have observed undertaking this behaviour tend to be of lesser socio-economic means, and in my rudimentary understanding of the intricacies of Indian culture, I believe they are more likely to have an arranged marriage. In my opinion, if they had to go out and attract a woman entirely on their own (and assuming she had unfettered free will and choice in the matter), they would be less likely to indulge in these behaviours.
Of course this is not all men in India.
In years past I have come to India for work, and in my current stay in Delhi I am living with family and am privy to another side of India. Whilst the professional men that I have met don’t have the more distasteful personal habits, I do still find them very difficult to understand.
Several years ago I tried my hand at internet dating through the website Shaadi.com. Here I found hundreds of men all with photos where they looked like their mother had dressed them. I don’t understand what the attraction is to shiny pants, thick striped shirts and hair that is carefully patted down to one side and glistening with coconut oil. Don’t get me wrong, I am far less interested in a person’s looks, but a sense of personal style is part of what makes someone attractive in my opinion, and what someone’s mother finds attractive is not usually what a potential mate may find appealing.
After chatting to a few men online, it seemed that most were far more interested in my citizenship than who I was, which is an immediate fail. However I did meet one man through Shaadi.com, Prem and I dated for a few months. We got along well and I enjoyed his company, until is philandering ways became apparent. Even at that point, he cowered and seemed incapable of admitting and facing the truth of his own behaviour. It was almost like he was scared to face a woman.
I remember finding the way he retreated odd. It felt like he was a little boy hiding from his mother, not the strapping man that I had thought he was.
I recently arranged to catch up with an intelligent man I had come across, but on our first meeting he brought along a female friend. Whilst she was lovely and friendly, her presence changed our plans and the dynamic of our meeting. I have never encountered this before when meeting Western men or women for that matter. After having arranged to meet someone (platonic or romantic) I generally turn up alone, or if I have reservations I may have a friend politely bid their farewells when they are comfortable the person I am meeting is not a criminal.
Was he scared to meet me? Did he need someone to approve of me? It all seemed strange, and quite honestly a little disappointing. He had a quick wit and a gorgeous smile, I would have liked to have spent some time getting to know him without a chaperone. We may meet up again and I sincerely hope we do (unless of course he reads this and becomes terrified of me).
Reflecting on these experience I felt a bit perplexed, so I typed “Indian Men” into Google.
Up popped a couple of sites linking me to “Hot Men” lists, and of course the obligatory dating site where I could find Indian men. The first serious site that showed up was number 7 on the list and it disturbed me. This article in The Times of India discusses a survey conducted on Gender Equality around the world, a survey that placed India last on the list. According to the article more than 65% of Indian men believed that women should tolerate violence to keep the family together and that women sometimes deserved to be beaten, furthermore 24% admitted to having committed sexual violence in their lives.
Whilst I have fortunately not come across anyone who has demonstrated these behaviours, it does seem to indicate that there are some deep seated issues in Indian culture where many men are treating women with little respect. One commentator in the article argues that the separation of males and females contributes to sexual violence, as women are viewed only as sexual objects. I am not sure about this as in western societies, where there is no such delineation, women are also viewed as sexual objects and sexual violence still occurs. Also it is unclear to me if the separation of men and women (for example in the trains) is a reaction to the violence or the cause.
Feeling a little uneasy, I continue on with my internet research and find this blog on Reasons to Marry an Indian Man. This denigrates the Indian man into something only marginally short of a sloth and depresses me even further. Surely this is not true!
Then this one in Tehelka that essentially blames parenting styles, and mothers in particular, for molly-coddling their sons. I have to say, I have seen many examples of this and it really does exist however it is not limited to Indian men, with many western men also relying on their mothers to look after them into adulthood.
I think it is easy to blame the mother for men’s shortcomings, but there seems to be a contradiction between this argument and the first article on the level of violence towards women. I am not a psychologist, and perhaps there is a link here but I can’t see it. So which one is true, or are they the two faces of the same person.
It continued on for pages and pages, lists of sites denigrating the Indian male and trying to explain reasons for his various “behaviours”.
To be fair, I also googled “Indian Women”. Up popped a range of sites of beautiful women, dating sites, some women’s rights organisations and beauty websites. There were no sites that discussed unsavoury or unattractive characteristics.
I know many Indian men, family and friends and have always felt like I understood them, but I now realise that all of them were raised outside of India. As I settle in India, I suspect it will be narrowing my opportunities considerably to discount men born and raised in India as friends and prospective partners, and to be honest I don’t want to do this.
I want to be able to have male friends from India, learn from them and appreciate them for who they are.
I like to believe in the positive, and I am hoping that the Indian man is not all that is written about him or that I have experienced. I hope he is strong, independent, polite and charming.
Someone please stick up for the Indian man and if you know of a good one who breaks the stereotype, please tell me about him.
I am an American engaged to an indian man yes they are very close with their family and most generally do as told by their mother or father even at times if they have an older sister they follow what they say they should do but my boyfriend respects his family but understands he has hos own opinion of things and especially when they find someone they really love and who truly loves them in return no traditions no culture nothing will stand in their way of giving you the utmost respect
I am American from a Latino background and have had 5 memorable relationship in my life, with a Mexican, Chinese, Nigerian, Indian and Egyptian. I have also gone out with american white guys but this never led to anything.
The Indian guy was by far the worst and led to very big heartbreak for me at the time, but is probably the only guy I would never even want to talk to again other than if I got the opportunity to punch him. All the other guys I have ok memories of even if it didn’t work out.
I believe a lot of this is due to expectations. Indian men are not the only dogs on earth of course there are many bad people in the world. But due to their conservatism and mummy boy upbringing they are scared of women and believe that noone will have sex with them unless they lie and act like they want to marry. So they lead you on and lie which is a really shitty thing to do. Men from other parts of the world are more socially skilled and do not lie as much to get sex.
Second reason is lack of social skills. Unlike Arab men who are also conservative they have very annoying social skills and cheap haggling nightmare in social settings with no respect for women or poor people. They are incredibly annoying negotiators that cannot take no for an answer and this goes for men and women. In my case, my Indian ex told me at the end of the relationship that he should have raped me and that I was using him for money. All because I was very tired of staying in and doing the same thing over and over. In his mind, women ‘owe’ him because he spent $20 on dinner 1 year ago. I am absolutely certain that had he not dumped me I would have been a candidate for marital rape. In my case I was very lucky I was left behind because he was an absolute nightmare that I was very blind to at the time.
Why was I so blind? And here is the kicker – i also have to say this of all my boyfriends he was the least macho,most seemingly polite guy and it was for this reason that I wanted to marry him. This is why the reality of his disrespect was very shocking, sudden and painful for me. For any woman looking for a nice guy, as hard as it is you must analyze the person very critically before marrying. If they do any ‘eve’ teasing which is common to Indian men, they are stupid and not grown up in their attitude towards women.quit and find a man of another nation. (Any nation). If they make little critical jokes about you or your personality, leave. If they do not introduce you to family leave. In reality he did not have the balls to say something critical openly, instead he became rude and in the long run, terrifyingly aggressive.
As for western culture I think the west has many bad things, we have a very bad attitude towards the need to date a lot before marriage which I realized was wrong after meeting people from other cultures. My advice for westerners is, it’s ok to be a little conservative. If you have dated a little bit and want to marry go ahead. Millennials are taking this attitude and I think it’s healthier. Neither conservative nor liberal cultures are ideal….the best balance is in the middle. But as for Indian men I really wouldn’t touch another one with a nine foot pole. I’ve already made my mistakes and have moved on….and need someone that sees me as a human being.
I met the most amazing man in 2011. Hansome, sexy, incredibly smart, respectful, amazing in bed… I could go on and on. I fell deeply in love with him. It’s been six years and I love him more than I ever have. He still touches me as if it’s our first time. He does have a family (divorced) and they are his first priority. That is a quality that I respect of him. I also have children and they come first for me. Neither one of us are looking to get married again and our relationship works. For now we are partners in life.
I recently met an Indian man who has been in the states for 5 years now. He is nowhere near what his culture is stereotyped to be. He is a sweet man, and of course smart. He opens every door for me, and refused for me to pay anything when we are out. He messages me almost every hour, and when he steps out of meetings with clients. I have much respect for his culture. Today he says in his culture they are 40% liberal, and just having to get married is the stress family brings to him. But he will chose who and when he will marry. I am hispanic, and I never imagined dating a man from the Indian (Asia) xulture, and I will have to say it’s a beautiful culture!
Irrespective of your beau’s heritage it sounds like you’ve found a keeper. That’s great, I wish you both all the best.
Tell us please where and how you met your lucky man. I was intrigued by what you were telling in your story. So many people don’t realize the loneliness that some have. I met someone so many years ago and new that I would have feelings for him if I ever saw him again only to be let down that he was married. Go figure that I assumed he would stay single all his life. Anyway broken hearted me has to find away to get on with my life and only assume I will find the man of my dreams. Believe white Americans think they can do most anything and get away with it, but mostly I don’t take likely the humiliation or controlling good at all., but the gentleman I had met so many yrs ago next came across like that and to my dismay I found myself wanting to be near when I can’t. If you read this please correspond with pic and tell me more. Have you ever thought about writing a book about your adventure and love?
Sorry for asking the wrong question. Instead where can I find your book.
Betty
This sounds like me a few years ago…please be wary. Indian culture is not liberal. If there does not seem to be any openly critical attitude towards ancient customs, it likely means they are lying to say what you want to hear and get laid. They may not even realize they are doing this they want to try to be modern but in the end will marry someone from their own country.
This was really an interesting read
Most of the things talked about here are absolutely correct
Especially about the auto rickshaw wala part
I believe it is with them because they have been ill treated since ages if they have got respect like an professional they would have eventually developed themselves to better hygienic humans :p
Arrange marriage has nothing to do with it one with better looks get an comparable partner I guess though I am not married yet :p
For India it would be correct to say “eh dunia rang birangi na eh bhedi na eh changi” or “this world is full of colours neither its good not its bad”
And not everone is alike though majority of Indian men’s are like this but that’s an result of years of ongoing practice’s
Many factors education finance situations etc play a major role
I am from a small town medium class town yet I will say I am polite with everyone (most of the times) charming in my own way plus I love to dress simple and will be independent once I start to earn plus I am not mumma’s boy though I do respect and love her.
And I am not attracted to white skin nor I want another citizsn ship
It’s just what I felt at the heat of the moment I have wrote here
I find this article very interesting. I am Australian and am currently dating a man from north India, he lives in Australia at the moment but has only been here for 12 months and was brought up in India, I am sticking up for Indian men because I truly believe he doesn’t fit this stereotype. He is extremely respectful of me and has very high hygiene standards. He definitely doesn’t seem me as just a sexual object and is the most caring man I have met, always making sure I’ve had dinner and always making sure I’ve arrived home safe. He respects that fact that I’m independent and he is genuinely excited to take me on a trip to India and show me his home country, so I guess I have found someone who breaks your stereotype.
That’s great Sarah. Like in every country, there are lots of different people. I certainly don’t believe every man in India is the same. I wish you all the best.
Yeah but you sure believe most Indian men are. The problem with Indians is they generally don’t defend themselves well against wild charges from other nationalities. Sure we ppl are far from perfect. But these so called righteous ppl wouldn’t dare raise stereotypes against Arabs or Muslims for instance the way they do against Indians. So let me on behalf of all Indian men say this to white women “don’t date Indian men cos we’re indeed all that you say.” We can’t see beyond the sex objects you project yourselves to be. And as for Indian men don’t be taken in by these righteous white women bcos for all that defense against their sterotypes there are indeed female stray dogs that display more loyalty than white women. I know cos I dated one from Slovenia and I even went to great lengths to reassure her that I am not like the other Indian guys that use white women. Well turns out I need’t have bothered. They just move on once they’ve got what they wanted from a relationship. So even if ur stuck in a relationship with a whitey just show her that you want this relationship to be for life and watch how the vermin scatter.
Um, I’m not white, I’m Indian
Dear Sarah, I am afraid you are cheated. I know Indians too well!!! He is so caring in your case JUST TO GET MARRIED TO YOUR AUSTRALUAN PASSPORT!!!!! BELIEVE ME!!!!!! I have been with Indians for 10 years! Once he gets married to you he will get: 1) high status in his community (white spauses change the way community looks at a person here) 2) he will get Australian passport or a work permit 3) he will get white boody to have sex with regularly free of cost YOU WILL GET MUCH LESSER THAN HE, BELIEVE me.
This was a very interesting read. I was reading your entry on South India and that led me here. Just two random points I thought I would mention, 1. I have the far more common experience of having grown up/studied in India and then moving to the West (US). One thing that struck me initially was that male/female relationships in a dating society..are a bit stressed. People seemed to be constantly looking for signs..a ring..prolonged eye contact….and were incessantly trying to ‘read’ the other person. I also found that it was inappropriate to be friendly to your friend’s significant other. Also women seemed to be in constant competition with each other. By contrast, my opposite -sex relationships in India, the platonic ones have been stress -free and romantic ones were organic. There was an understanding that even if I don’t find someone I will not end up alone (whether that is good or bad is another issue) but it afforded for very close platonic relationships with the opposite sex..without constantly having to evaluate if ‘this could be something more’.
2. This was actually pointed out by a friend in a flash of uncharacteristic insight. 🙂 He observed how porn was reflective of the sexual maturity of a society. Indian porn is 90% titillation…reflective of the sexually repressed and inexperienced state of the core audience.
Caveat – All this information is dated…say from early 2000s.
Thanks a lot for the article. I also married a mama’s boy from India and I would like to share my story with some practical outcome. When we met with “my” mom’s boy, I really liked his gentle, soft nature, he was very shy, respectful, not too talkative. His head would tint in a shy manner towards his right shoulder when he was walking. All that was ok for me and I had no idea what it all in fact meant. I had no clue that in front of me was a typical mama’s son and all mentioned above was the result of her wrong upbringing.
Here is the list of what I should have known and what should have made me alert:
1. On one of our first dates, under the night starry sky on a university campus (I was studying), sitting on a bench in fresh area he talked softly ………. about his “mummie”, how much she means to him and that she is God for him (yes, he used exactly these words) and he gently and proudly showed me his…..mobile phone with the background picture of his….mama! Oh, my, I was not knowing what it all meant. It is only today when I went through some articles written by family psychologists I got to know that if a boy on a first date, instead of looking at your lips, hips and breast, decides to show you his mummie’s picture ( saved as a mobile front background pic), then r u dealing with the mother’s boy and u must run from him as fast as you can…lol…right from the same bench on a university campus! If only I knew…but I thought that it is normal for India and swallowed it.
2. When talking to his friends and referring in talk to his mom, he used to say “mummie” instead of “mom/mother”…It literally drew my attention because it sounded unnatural when a 30 year old man refers to his mama in this way…again, I mistakenly attributed it to Indian culture…and I had no idea I was dealing with mama’s boy. I myself come from Russia and 30 year old men never use the word “mummie” when referring to one of the parents.
3. Coming home from office (where he had a lot of free time) the first thing he would do – he would speak on the phone to his ……..mama. I remember our first rented flat, the balcony, where he would go and talk to her for good 20 minutes instead of meeting his wife and a child after a long day or he would do that before going to bed (instead of having good sex, lol). She would ask him what he had for lunch, what he is going to have for dinner and she would manipulate him with her health, property and swinging moods. Amazing, is not it??? After a couple of scandals, when I started raising my voice, he found a better way – before entering a house, he would switch off his car engine and…..talk over the phone to his mama in the parking zone in the car….Did not he still speak to her after reaching home???? Opppsss…lol….He always wanted to keep his mobile phone under pillow at nights and when I asked him “why?” and tried to explain that its radiation is not good for human brain, he used to tell me “what if something will happen to mama and I will miss the call?”…hmm……
4. Right after marriage I lived together with his mom. Through I was doing 2 things together, my PhD and full time work (!!!) he mom would still insist that I had to cook his lunch at 6 a.m. before I go to office, and dinner after I came from job (and she is a housewife who has a maid to clean the house! So what do you think she was doing the entire day???). Instead of doing my PhD I had to do that. His office was 1 minute away from home, which means half of the day he would stay at home, have lunch, chat with mama, watch TV, play computer games and smoke with his friends occasionally in his clinic. Consequently his earning was very less due to such schedule. I decided to join one of the engineering company as a translator and after realizing that combing both a job, studies and cooking was not that easy, I run away to my Uni campus for weekdays and came to him at weekends. To be able to balance my PhD and full time work. Why I worked? Because I have a daughter from my previous relations and I had to send money back home to my mom who was taking care of my baby. My husband being himself mama’s boy had no idea what parenting means.
5. When living together with his mom, if I asked my husband to help me wash dishes, he would do in such a strange way as if he was FEARING that she would enter the kitchen and scold him for helping his wife. He was in fact scared and once she entered unexpectedly he jumped away from the sink and pretended that he was just standing and chatting with his darling wife. So, romantic is not it?? Lol
6. When I insisted on separating from mama, on bringing finally my child to the country and living as a normal family, it became a tragedy for both his mom and her little boy. They stopped talking to each other for some time….but their “divorce” did not last for long…property manipulations, threats of poor health, other issues – mom’s weapons were very powerful. As I said, her son would daily talk to her on phone, though they live in one city and see each other very often. Me and my mom are living thousands and thousands miles away and we do not have this sick necessity to call and talk to each other daily. Least she is interested in what I had for lunch or for dinner..lol
7. I remember two funny incidents. Once he entered a bathroom where a bee was flying. Then I heard screaming in such a feminine voice that for a minute I thought there was a woman in the bathroom, not my husband. Second incident: when we realized that there was a mouse living in our kitchen and spoiling my health I asked him to catch it. He refused. Then we called a brave guard, working in our building, the man bravely killed the mouse with a good shot by a stick and released me from suffering. What a nice illustration of bravery!
8. And finally now, after almost 7 years of marriage, he….left me and my family and run away…. Where do you think? Oh, yes, he lives with mama! A 36 year old married man, with 12 year old daughter (though not biological, but still) lives with his mama, eats her lunch, wears cloth ironed by her, watches her TV and neighbors a single girl-tenant which mama selected to have…wow….a fantastic failure from my side…lol….excuse me but I give up……lol….
Generally and seriously speaking, these men are very sensitive about what you say about their mom. God forbid if you express what you think about her fairly. She is sacred, she is god for him. They also have very fragile and inflamed ego due to imbalance in their nature. For example once my daughter had the big function at school and I invited him as well. On the way to the venue I shared that my boss (a woman) may also join us, he felt that he is not needed and he did not attend the function. Instead he was waiting for 3-4 hours in the car. My boss did not even come and mu husband did not see that beautiful function where my child was dancing on a huge stage (he missed a lot). His ego was far more precious than anything else. These men are also afraid of women, and are very sensitive in this respect. They are poor communicators. My husband hardly spoke to me first, I was always the first to open a conversation and who initiated the first meeting with his mom. It happens to mama’s boys because it was always their mother who spoke and they listened, so they do not know how to speak and they tend to keep their feelings deep inside. They are very obedient…if mother is not around….lol…..Again if you live separately you can ask him to help with household. He will not mind and he is a good help. However if his mother is at home, it will not be possible. They have very deep fear in front of her, though they may act and pretend that they are very brave, which eventually is achieved through rudeness. They confuse “being brave” with “being rude”. That is what I have observed many times. The moment you remind him that you want to see a man in him, not a boy, he will try to imitate a man by being rude and he really believes he convinced you. They are very indecisive. When we went shopping to buy clothes for him he was very indecisive about which shirt to choose, which colour, size etc….it is again because all decisions in this respect were previously taken by mama. She was the one who brought even underwear for him at the age of 30! You do not believe me? It is true! Similarly, they are indecisive about everything in life. They need a second mother when they marry and if you do not act like his mom, he gets very frustrated and calls you “selfish bitch”…Seriously! You are trying to make a man out of him and he thinks you do not care about him… These men are also very bad at flirting/playing with a woman. They want a simple atmosphere, safe and predictable: TV, good tea and lunch. Sex shall be also regular so that he feels safe and in demand. If you refuse sex because he had not met your emotional needs, he won’t understand it. Because he does not suspect that a woman has emotional needs and a lot of them. I had to teach him all this. His mama had not. So, generally, it is a very frustrating condition which affects the entire relationship and which is very difficult to handle if you have a child, job and your own thoughts.
Now, few suggestions to three groups of people:
1. Mama’s sons: please understand the clinical diagnose of yours. This is not a joke, this is a serious problem that can ruin your life, relationship and self esteem (in most cases it ruins for sure). Talk to your mom, explain that her behavior is caused by her subconscious fears, by her desire to project her love towards her (expired) husband onto her male son, which she subconsciously uses as a husband. Tell her that you are not anymore a small boy, that u r a man and u have your own life and that your wife and children are your priority. Yes, it may be a shock for her, but if you tell her strictly but gently, she must realize her mistakes. Chance that she would not change, but at least you did your duty, you explained and tried to help.
2. Mothers of mama’s boys: please understand that you are ruining society and future generations. Your son got into this behavioral model, into this clinical pattern because of you, and most likely his wife will manipulate him, knowing his weak points and addressing his subconscious need for being manipulated in fact. Your grandchildren will grow up seeing a mother/wife dominating at home and they will automatically adopt this behavior and bring it into their married life. Thus, this endless pattern will continue affecting further generations producing weak irresponsible men.
3. To a woman of a mama’s boy: if you are only dating a mama’s boy and still not married – my genuine advice to you –RUN FROM HIM AS FAST AS YOU CAN if you do not want to suffer your entire life. Find another boy/man who has learnt about independence since early age, who started earning in his early 20s, who does not live with his mama in his 20s and 30s and does not depend on her. You know what I mean. If you are already married to mama’s boy, well, I have no right to suggest you a divorce…you have selected him for some qualities and that was your choice. Maybe you are a strong woman, who subconsciously attracted a man who loves to depend on women, but all you can do now, apart from divorce – look at this discovery with humour and jokes. Recognizing the problem makes your life a bit easier, an if you partner will also recognize it, you have all chances to survive together. Good luck. As for me, my case is too problematic and too pathetic and I pass on my boy back to his womanN1.
Oh dear. Sounds like you really missed all the signs early on. I hope you have found a good life for you and your child now.
This whole issue is cultural disconnect. Can you really expect that a man deny his entire upbringing and culture? If he is eager to move forward to define a new culture for himself (deciding to move to a society/culture/country, establish a culturally diverse relationship with you, etc.) then he has a certain obligation to find a way to navigate changes that embrace the new culture he chose. This does not mean, however, that he will either want or be able to entirely disconnect with his first culture, nor should he. Many elements of his first culture made him the man with whom you are in love today, even perhaps due to the respect and love he has for his mother. Just as he made a conscious decision to widen out culturally, you also did by accepting to have a relationship with him. That obligates both of you to find a way to navigate this union of two cultures. Remember that regarding culture: neither one is better than the other—they are just DIFFERENT, sometimes VERY DIFFERENT! I wish you well…..
Truly intriguing article.
Unfortunately, I can only confirm the stereotypes surrounding Indian men. I am currently going through a very messy separation from my abusive, controlling, male superiority husband. I suffered almost the entirety of our marriage and faced constant belittling based on my gender, country, ideals, age and rights. Without ever intentionally antagonising him I was the spark of hostility for merely making the wrong facial expression. Apparently, even if I wasn’t happy, I had to act as though I was. Regardless of my misery. Like a fool I changed myself in attempts to please him and make him happy but he steadily grew worse. I ended up leaving him and am now being constantly harassed after he followed me across states. He begged me to take him back. I refused and he asked me in anger and defiance; ‘what did I do wrong?’
You can imagine my fury at having to explain for the billionth time that I was not interested in being a doormat or punching bag. He is one of those who epitomise the stereotypical, woman repressing, patriarchy loving men with the mentality of a small child.
I am sure that there must be some good men among them but I would advise extreme caution. None of these qualities came out until after he had stabbed the claws of marriage into me. Be very certain that he is a genuinely sweet and caring man before making any choices.
A woman is to be respected and cherished. Encouraged and loved. Not shamed for what, in the face of proper love, should be small mishaps. It should never be forgotten that we are all human beings. As such, we are all equal.
P.S. My husband was very well educated and from a good, loving family. Don’t be fooled into thinking that only the poorer men have huge flaws. Often the better off are the better actors with ridiculous pride and vanity. They flash their sweetness, mild manners and humility to reel you in like a hapless fish.
I apologise for the long reply but I had draw it out in order to explain the severe side of the coin. Good luck in finding a nice man and I truly hope you find the man of your dreams.
Catherine, I’m sorry to hear about the experiences you had, but glad to hear that you are now on the other side. Wishing you all the best. Rakhee
this is the best description of the Indian man. I am married to one and I swear this is a perfect description, I am amazed http://www.mensxp.com/special-features/today/7319-weak-ends-of-the-average-indian-male-.html
Oh dear, I think I’ve met that man too!
congrats and do not worry, if he is educated he is easy to be trained. They are trainable and will adjust if u r firm. You are responsible for his evolution now;)
That was interesting to read, Rakhee.
Unfortunately a lot of what you wrote is true; most uneducated indian men are plain gross. But I don’t wanna be really judgemental about them…I actually pity them a bit.
Our focus must be places on the urban, city-educated, so-called ‘modern’ men.
Even in 2014, some two hundred years after the abolition of Sati (correct me if I’m wrong; I suck at history) Indian men continue to disrespect and ill-treat their women. That’s f-ed up, isn’t it. Even NOW, men hit their wives and expect them to sit at home. Now with the rise of feminism in India, this is reducing in some households, but it still exists.
(Oh, and women are pretty insane, too. Their definition of feminism is messed up. That’s a different story though.)
That’s the bad news.
The GOOD news is that a lot of boys and men are starting to realize that women must be respected and treated well, whether she’s a wife, girlfriend, or even just a friend. Things are getting better. However, from what I’VE experienced, the world is still unwilling to five these decent indian men a chance. In my sixteen years of life, I’ve travelled to quite a few places outside of India. Though people aren’t particularly rude, a lot of them just give us weird looks, and some, ARE rude. Indians are changing. Slowly, but surely. So the onus is on us to prove to the world, yes, but maybe people should just give us a chance.
(PS, I have many fantastic American and European friends. But there are a category of people who’re pretty stand off-ish.)
Based on my personal experience, most Indian men are fake and pretentious. They’re nice around their co-workers and friends but they treat their lovers like shit.
By the way, I’m a non-Indian. I believe in every description about Indian men that is written by the blogger. To all Indian men, you just have to accept the fact that MOST of you are A-holes and jerks. You lousy Indian jerks will never learn what it takes how to truly respect women and will you will always be a pain in the ass by Indian women themselves and to all women in the world.
Hey thea,
Pretty surprised by your article on Indian men’s even you are Indian yourself, If that is what you think about overall Indian mens then i think Rakhee it includes your dad and brother too.
By just having born in Australia or having your precious “AUSTRALIAN CITIZENSHIP” you were bragging about in your article, doesn’t gonna change the fact that you are Indian too and your father is one of the so called “Indian men”.
If you have so much problem with indian mens then why you keep trying to date them? or is it because your Indian parent (now aussies) want you to look for some indian guy only ? or maybe they don’t want you to date out of your ethnicity because atlast they are Indian too?
You should go back Australia and find some White or any other guy except indian and live happily. i don’t see the point why somebody trying so hard for dating some Indian guy when they don’t even like them and want to stay in India. Does anyone want you to date us (Indians ) and then judge us ??
Indirectly you are keep trying to prove that even you get educated in abroad, how small your imagination is 🙁
NOW FEW POINTS ABOUT iNDIAN MEN
1. Indians love their mum/parents very much and we don’t think our parents are burden on us if we have to look after them when they get old and i’m very proud of it that we are still understand our responsibilities towards our parents and just don’t disown them and send them into some old age home like those western peoples.
Its not only Indians who listen or very close to their mum’s, i think italians, croat etc. men’s too are very close with their mum’s and i don’t think a decent and nice girl have to be very worried about guy’s mum unless their way of life is totally messed up.
2. India is very diverse with so many ethnic back grounds and not to mention the majority of population still live in villages and illiterate so they still think the old way. I think it was same in west to in maybe in 18th century or 19th about race issues, about homo-sexuality etc. its just when their economy start booming and they start having better way of living….. their views changed.
Atlast I’m a Proud Indian and in a relationship with a Canadian(white) girl and as far i know my girl i don’t think she gonna be agree with you on this . I hope my post will elevate your thinking and you stop creating this type of non-sense thread when you hardly encountered few indian mens and better trying to see positive side about INDIA AND INDIANS…. because in the end no body is perfect .
If you read my post right you would see that I am not talking about dating Indian men. Dating isn’t something I’m really that interested in at all, I’m very happy single thank you.
I have also referred to the many Indian men I know, including my father in the article and how they don’t reflect my experiences here.
Thanks for your thoughts, but no your post didn’t “elevate” my thinking. If you had read my post correctly I suspect it may have “elevated” your thinking.
okay so you are saying that it wasn’t dating that you were interested in right, if i understood your reply the way you want me to understand it?
lemme quote here few lines from your above mentioned article
“Several years ago I tried my hand at internet dating through the website Shaadi.com. Here I found hundreds of men all with photos where they looked like their mother had dressed them. I don’t understand what the attraction is to shiny pants, thick striped shirts and hair that is carefully patted down to one side and glistening with coconut oil. Don’t get me wrong, I am far less interested in a person’s looks, but a sense of personal style is part of what makes someone attractive in my opinion, and what someone’s mother finds attractive is not usually what a potential mate may find appealing.”
1.If you were not interested in “Dating” like you said then why the heck you want to go and look for guys on “SHAADI(Marriage).COM [http://www.shaadi.com/introduction/index/letter-from-cmd] “, which is entirely formed for people seeking to get married.
Do i think you were not aware of what you were doing or was it entirely for your entertainment purpose or just some other spice for your blog??
2. Who asked you in this whole India to go first on wrong site when you not even looking for your life partner and then start judging them based on their appearance, does it really important to you to understand peoples dressing style ?? Are you that free in your real life that you have all the time to judge people and make remarks like how their mum dressed them etc. ??
3. Does anyone here making remarks about how you look in real?? so why you want to do that i think everbody have rights to wear what they want to wear so, who the hell are you to talk about it and make fun of them on your articles. I think you really need to elevate your thinking in my very honest opinion……………… and start appreciate people in whatever form they are in.
You’ll see from what I’ve written that I did try shaadi.com “several years ago”. It was actually 7 years ago and I lived in Australia, not India. The men I’m describing there were primarily Indian men living in Australia. That experience was used as an example.
I’m not currently dating in India and am not actively looking for a mate at all. I’m happy single.
Take it easy Rahul. Blogger is talking about villagers.
But projection of an ideal man is same every where. Good and bad people are everywhere. Even in India n also other parts of world there are many many …gud people. Particularly, in india and in few European countries gud guys don’t even talk to people like blogger. No offence Plz. This is a true.
Bottom line is a barber / truck driver from india and in any part of the world have same nature n ofcourse almost same cheap thinking.
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I really enjoy reading this post. I am a non-Indian and dated an Indian man for a few months. He was educated and really cute. I have also casually dated men outside my race – Chinese and Canadian. Of all the foreign men that I dated – I have to conclude that the Indian man is the lousiest and gravest player ever. That’s why I promised to myself that I WILL NEVER EVER DATE AN INDIAN MAN.
TO ALL DECENT WOMAN IN THE WORLD, STAY CLEAR OF
INDIAN MEN WHETHER HE IS EDUCATED OR NOT. THEY HAVE LITTLE RESPECT FOR WOMEN AND ONLY SEE WOMEN AS SEX OBJECTS.
The thing that a woman is feeling comfortable enough to share such opinions on Indian men (which are definitely not making indian men look that desirable), whilst living in India, among Indian men, says something about Indian men..doesn’t it? Who gave a woman this freedom in India? Americans? Aussies? Or Indian constitution? or perhaps the tolerance that Indian culture inherently has? Who are behind the constitution or culture?? Perhaps people. Is there law and order in the nation? Are there more good things happening in India or bad things? Do MAJORITY of women feel OK in India..well in a democracy its always about majority or minority..right? Every country has problems. No country is absolutely safe for everyone. India is better than many countries is some aspects and worse in some. Every individual is better in some aspects and not so in some. Respecting women alone doesn’t make a man perfect. If that is the only thing he cannot do, that ain’t gonna make him a villain or uncivilized. If we restrict this to sexual violence on women, I am currently doing some academic research on sexual violence on women..and for those who want to rely on surveys…West has higher rates than India. Issues like pedophilia, rapes, molestation etc are plaguing the west more than India. So, do western men respect their women? How do we come to a conclusion about whole nation of men based on what a portion of them do? I personally feel, many women enjoy lot of freedom in India. And when you want to generalize something in India…its very difficult without accounting for 70% of population that lives in villages. Australia is as big as one or two states in India, and its population is less than that of many states in India. The diversity aspect is not there and one can perhaps talk about a typical australian man or woman without being very wrong, but when it comes to India one should be very careful about talking about some ‘Indian man’..one should be more specific..like Indian Hindu, Indian Muslim, Indian Rural, Indian small town, Indian metro, Indian sikh, Indian autodriver, Indian pilot, Indian army man, Indian mama’s boy etc etc Not to forget the differences in North and South India..oh its an ocean of people here and difficult to generalize anything. Moreover, it requires a very widely traveled person who has met thousands of people and known them well without any bias in their minds to be able to make a generalized comment on men of any nation. And about the personal experiences all these women have….one’s personality and perception and attitudes play major role in the kind of experiences they have with people and environment.people surrounding them only contribute a bit to their subjective experience. India is a bundle of contradictions, more than any other nation in the world. Nothing can be said for sure about something that has contradictions in itself. India is such a nation…the more you search the more you find…the search never ends…conclusions never made…its a flowing stream..and changing scene…and a wonderful mystery. Welcome to India! 🙂
very well said prajay
I totally agree with you about Indian men and there bad habit. As you mentioned the habit of chewing and dipping is more common amongst blue collar workers which is common in america too if you date a redneck or people who work in farms all their teeth is messed up. I do not necessarily promote this kinda behavior. I think constructive criticism makes you a better person.
Now since you mentioned about situation about India men. I am indian guy who grew up in India and travelled all over asia, europe, russia and north america. In west you can go on a date, take her for movies, dinner and you can have a good time(get laid). In India on my last couple of trip, everytime i take a girl on a date, treat her nice, what do i get in return? Nothing. Even after dating for 6 months she is not ready for a kiss? After dating for few times she wants to marry? Can a guy who is hot about 9 on a scale of 10 having a good job, good personality get a date or get laid in India?If you say Indian men are not good then what about french, spanish and american guys when they come to India get frustated with never getting laid? Now who is to blame? I do not want to appear like a pervert in conversation, but how can you get into a intimate relationship without getting intimate? No love no glory. Love promotes peace.
Who is responsible for this mess? Society, men and women both. Dating needs to be encouraged. May be add a line to you topic that frustation of Indian men never getting laid?
Thanks for your observations Prakash. I have no experience dating Indian women so I can’t comment.
It will be good if you stay away from Indian men. You will do them a great favor.
To the Indian man reading this – Stay away from this woman.
OMG, are you a moron? Who are you to address all Indian men? Their keeper? Or the President of India? Just because you’re a moron, doesn’t mean ALL other Indian men are. And trust me, nobody will ‘need’ to stay away from this blogger because they will simply gravitate out of her reality. Sad cases like you pop up just to make her laugh. Nobody will need to do anything, MORON. And do us all a favor, why don’t you stay away for starters? You stink and it’s strong.
I forgot to add, the Indian population is one of the most highly educated population around the world in numerous countries and also the wealthiest. What do you have to say about that?
A very small proportion of the Indian population is the most highly educated and wealthiest. The vast majority is not. Perhaps it is time you spent a little more time in “your country” to get back in touch with what actually is happening here.
I’m referring to Indians outside of India. In India they lack the resources – which shows it’s their environment and upbringing that causes these social issues. You’re privileged. Instead of bashing, try to understand why things are the way they are – and don’t forget it’s not the only country. Also, if you care so much, why don’t you do something about it? You also sometimes say “Indians” – referring to the entire population. That’s really offensive. I come from a large Indian family, all wealthy, well educated and certainly do not fit the description you describe (and Yes, they are from India).
I agree they there are many social issues within India. I am not bashing, I am just writing about my experience in India, therefore this piece is Indian centric. Perhaps instead of bashing me why don’t you do something about it.
Rakhee, we thank you for creating social awareness about the problems with Indian men. Why don’t you create a mass social movement to correct their ills? Maybe, you might find a soulmate in the process.
Bravo! Keep up the good work!
I am an Indian female born and raised in New York City. This post is utter crap. I have dated mostly white American men (because they pursue me quite often, not because I think they are superior) and I have found my own Indian men understanding the values of sex, love and marriage way better than my white American ex boyfriends. Of course there are exceptions but look how high the divorce rate is in America, look at all the single mothers abandoned not receiving any care from the men who knocked them up. Do not come to my country with your fortunate upbringing and judge Indian men and women with poor socioeconomic status as if it’s the only country that’s doing this because it’s not, it’s just the most gossiped about. India is developing slower than many countries, yes. I am revolted by female foetocide and dowry bribes, yes. But I’m also revolted that so many girls I know are drugged here in clubs and raped. Women are kidnaped here in America and sold into sex slavery in their own country. I know it’s not as bad as India currently but it’s a more developed country. Look at germany and the holocaust, look at how sexist the bible is and how Jewish hasidic women are treated. Jewish women are not respected at all in their orthodox religions. They are expected to keep a shaved head to make them feel worthless and undesired and for many other reasons but it’s mainly a male domination thing. This primarily white religion must comply to all abuse administered to them. I can go on for pages and hours. It has absolutely nothing to do with Indians or Indian culture. Please don’t be so ignorant. It’s All about the situation. You should not speak so poorly of Indian men because I have some very interesting and disturbing stories about your men too.
These are your experiences and I have written about mine. If I was writing about the treatment of women in Israel or during the holocaust then no doubt I would have things to say. But that is not what this post is about.
This post was written about 2 years ago. I have continued to live in India over this time and my views about Indian men have progressed, but I continue to stand by what I have written and my experiences.
Why is it every time a writer talks about gender relations in India some body has to bring up divorces rates in the west. Yes the west has issues but stop using their issues to deflect from Indian social issues. Its pathetic!!!!! Indians always brag how they have these values and morals but it doesn’t show in their own country. If anything Indians are some of the biggest hypocrites. Your defensive attitude is one of the many reasons why i think India will never be able to solve its problems, due to the fact that Indians like you refuse to take a critical look at themselves and their communities. Indians always talk about how bad the west is but for some strange odd reason many Indians want to live and work there.LOL Don’t get me started on how many love to look down on other ethnic groups like Africans but yet their are more Indians living in Africa than there are Africans in India(that says a lot lol) Also a low divorce rate do not mean happy marriages. The divorce rate was low in Victorian England but men were bringing stds home to their wives .Divorce is taboo in India especially for women. Given India’s social issue its low divorce rate is actually troubling not something to be praise, because it shows that most people prefer to stay in unhappy abusive marriage for appearances.. BTW India divorce rate is rising, so in the next 10 20 years it may be just as high as other countries.
DISCLAIMER: I’m an Indian Man, and like most of them I do not possess a good English grammer skills..So forgive my errors in language.
I still hope I make myself clear.
India as you know is not a developed country, It has been through a period of repression and poverty for so long that you will find people almost always unhappy, sad looking face with little energy or interest for anything other than survival and protection of their families.. it maybe due to a lack of nutritious diet containing negligible protein contents, i’m not sure.. Now you might think I’m getting off topic here but it all relates to your experience of Indian men, and also Indian women whom you didnot have desire to experience.
Some facts before I start rambling again:
1 ) Here you will find people put more faith in Gods than in Science. Even the most scientific and rational minded people are firm believers and are feared of “their” Gods. Why? Because they were raised like that.
2 ) Society is very Important in India. If you do something wrong you disgrace your family and you are despised upon by everybody, because words spread fast in the society.. Bottom line – People are afraid to experiment and try new things.
3 ) Survival is difficult with more than a billion people trying to survive and raise up their standards. The Green revolution and medical progress without proper education to common people did a good job there. And ofcourse you can’t afford condoms if you can’t afford food.
4 ) Trust – when you combine so many little nations into one with different cultural and social background, language barriers , and loads of betrayals experienced since the British Rule of India..Combine it with poverty and increase crime rates. Children are taught never to trust anyone outside their family.
4 ) Arranged Marriage with dowry system – why? combine all 4 facts I mentioned above. “An exploitation of woman’s weakness of survival alone in this harsh world creating an opportunity to financially blackmail her family aka Dowry system.
5 ) Low sex ratio – Female inequalities and foeticide.. Read fact no. 4
Now combine all of them in a mixer add some of the Indian spices, and think deep you will get all the answers you want to know about why Indians are like the way they are.
This is just my (as Americans like to say) 2 cents.
Dear Rakhee,
it is obviously very difficult to find Mr. Right and these days Girls have to be especially careful! I wish you luck from the bottom of my heart. I travelled all over this world and I am involved all my life in the North Indian Tradition. My son will get married soon and is half kashmiri. In my life I did a lot of NGO work not only in India. I met so many people. Indian men of course are very attractive and if they want they will be very charming. But I have never seen so much Chauvinism and so much lies in any other country. Every indian man will be able to receive a price for best acting. Most of them are awfully spoiled from their mothers. – As a mother myself I have seen how difficult it is, to bring up a little bugger with these genes. He consequently wanted to bargain for anything with me. Thanks God I am german and it is very difficult to bargain with me. However – please choose double critical and charm and presents should not impress in any way. I would always hire private detectives to investigate about his family circumstances. Apart from all these lies and fraud – India is one of the most beautiful countries in this world. I had a lot of great moments in ancient temples, playing with family friend’s kids any my kid and in the University. The indian cuisine is splendid. India has the best tea. The fashion is remarkable. – Just enjoy the positive points and please look for somebody who has been brought up in the west. I have seen so many marriages and in any case the ones who married somebody from back home was due to differences of mentality and upbringing brought to fail in tragedy. A man from India will always feel low when you are brought up in the west and in any case and no matter how well educated he is – he will always try to compensate through male chauvinism. I met my ex husband businesswise, we worked together with me and he was brought up in London. It was not a case of immigration marriage. His parents were my best friends until they died. He was a womanizer and when I got tired of it I got divorced. But his family was always side by side with me. That is a big exception. There are all kind of destinies but I would never want to miss this great culture which has so many positive points of family life. Keep yourself safe and good luck!
Thanks for sharing your story. I agree there are all kinds of destinies, and right now mine is pretty happy without a man, but I will never discount one should they come happen to come along.
excuse me! did u use the term ‘genes’ here. i hope then you’re cognizant of your own German genes, yes the very same that carried out the holocausts of the Hereros in Cameroon and the Jews in Nazi Europe. the reason countries like yours have a supposedly egalitarian and libertarian society is because you have an overpaid law enforcement. do you actually believe that your country would be any different from India should it be in a position of impoverishment. Forgive me for laughing but if as you say it is a matter of genes why would you have sexual harassment / assault laws in Germany or any so called egalitarian western country? if white men had genes that made them naturally indisposed towards misogyny then what is the need for all those anti-misogynist laws in your western society? you know the truth is a nation has to be prosperous for it to be egalitarian sad as it may sound. and that cannot happen when you western nations are in control of the world’s economy passing economic legislations favoring your own people, channeling the world’s precious resources all to yourselves by invading countries for those precious resources and dispossessing people of the Third World. To you this may sound like I am trying to change the subject but these are all interrelated. The fact of life is that the strong will prey over the weak when there is chaos and poverty and you Westerners are certainly not helping the Third World come out of it’s horrible situation. See if we have a more gender-egalitarian society or not in India or any Third World nation once we’re prosperous and instead of just idly passing judgement, fight your own western governments against being such control freaks over defenseless nations.
Hello Rakhee:
Sorry to say that most men here in the US and India fit your stereotype sad but true. Yet again not all Indian men are boars and chauvinists.
I spent my last 26 years in India and have been here in the US for the past 22 years. My mom who was a strict disciplinarian and she was a terror if I could not take care of myself (i still do my own dishes, wash my loins) and ) even fix dinner couple times a week in the kitchen and do household chores.
It harkens to the days when most Indian families were multi-family living in the same household. Men used to go out in the fields or work in their family business.
The alpha male usually the oldest ruled the roost it was his way or the highway. There were abuses on the women in the household of every stripe you can imagine.
Men albeit Western or Indian are not genetically made for endurance/persistence and the sophistication as women. I can tell this by personal experience I have 3 women in the household. I can’t imagine going through monthly hormonal changes and have the ability to deliver babies, have a career. Women have the mental toughness to go through post menopause fight the odds of cancer and care for their fathers and husbands in their old age. Evidence was my mom and 2 sisters.
If you ask me I’m in awe with the women, I will tell you this no man can do what women do. I’m no sissy or a whip. I’m man enough to give the credit where it’s due.
I leave you with this notion, “A good strong Women do make the man complete”.
Thanks for your insights. Yes like you, I am in awe of most of the women I meet every day!
I live in America and work with an Indian guy and he has body odor. Reinforces that stereotype. I have to deal with Indian men on a daily basis (they are based in India) and I have them running scared. I am a female and I don’t take no shit.
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hi rakhee I’m an independent thinking guy from Bangalore now in kerala so if you come this side gimme a call and we can chat for fun hahahh
Bob.
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From an abused and hurt indian male- I appreciate and acknowledge your observations about us indian men and hope that atleast afew of us will take a serios note and change for better. It is important for us to change the attitutde that goes behind urinating in public, picking our noses, or fondling our nether parts and umpteen other things that we do. We should give all women the same importance that we give to our wives and sisters and eschew form domestic violence ( i did not know that Indian men practised it as rampantly as their brothers elsewhere in the world). However I would like to ask a question on behalf of indian men to MS. Gheelani , why are we indian men targeted always, are all the other men all over the world pefect in their attitude towards women and perfect in their behavior public places. Some of the behavuioral aspects such as nose picking and urinating in public places is done by certain class of men in India who do not have not had access to proper grooming, education and facilities and Ms Gheelani seems to have overlooked the fact that the women coming from this class also display equally ugly traits. so this behavior is not gender-specific but has something to do with socio-economic strat to which this people belong. it is something to be pitied by more fortunately placed persons like you and me Ms Gheelani and not ridiculed. If you travelled anywhere in world such as Africa, Latin America or for that matter even in those parts of precious USA and Europe people in living similar conditions conditions would display similar behavior traits. In india these things do not go unnoticed as people living in these conditions form a significant chunk of the population . However all this is changing very fast, but i hope in process we do not internalise the undesirable traits of western socety which would replicate stereotype western men and women amongs us which we certainly do not want. India has always set a good example and will always continue to do so thsi is only passing phase.
Thanks for your comment. I am talking about my observations on India here because I live here, that is why it is the topic of my post. Since you raised it, I have travelled to almost 50 countries in the world including Africa and Latin America and I have not experienced the same behaviour nor to the same extent that I have in India.
I am not sure that I agree with your comment that this is a “passing phase”. Based on my experience of travelling to India multiple times over the past 30 odd years, I think this country is regressing not progressing and that saddens me.
I have a query to all the Indian men that express this collective sense of remorse and culpability for the way they treat women. Do we really need a cue from westerners on how we treat women? Is it so hard for us to recognize right from wrong in our own actions? Do we always need a foreigners to point out to us what kind of people we are?
Several months after this blog, I’ve taken the liberty of making a comment. Only because I felt a need to make a point.
You asked “Do we always need a foreigner to point out to us what kind of people we are?”
Answer: No, we do not NEED a foreigner to do that, but if we refuse to face what we are squarely and change ourselves for the better – then who should point it out to us? If we do not do it, then whoever does it is a “foreigner”. It is your attitude of “we are better than everyone else, how dare they tell us they don’t like something about us” that is reflected across Indian society, and the reason why foreigners are compelled to say what needs to be said – because we, my friend, are too pompous, arrogant and self-indulgent to be what we need to be.
As a foreigner, I don’t believe I need to comment on this anymore!
yeah but India has already made the mistake of not looking inwards rather than outwards for guidance and it is exactly this trait that european colonial powers exploited. mahatma gandhi told the british “india wants it freedom even if it means it’s total destruction.” i reiterate that instead of waiting for guidance from westerners it’d be better if we learnt to treat our fellow citizens much better and that would automatically transfer onto our conduct towards other people – foreign or native. also western civilization has never really been tested. western societies became gender egalitarian long after the industrial revolution because of which the Patriarchy could be eschewed. I really doubt that Western Civilization would continue to be gender egalitarian if they were tested the way backward nations like India were tested.
hello , i am looking for aussie girl can you you suggest me ?
Hey Rakhee, Iet me tell you how I have decoded my beau and thought things would have changed, but it’s really a cultural issue.
I’m a Southeast Asian and met my Indian husband in Dubai 11 years ago. I was 26, young and so vulnerable when I met my husband at that time. We were so truly, deeply, madly in love. He meant the whole world to me and I just felt that there is spontaneity in our relationship. He used to bring me so much stuff from India when he’d come back from holiday, every time telling me lies that Amie (his mom) sent me saree, flowery slippers, pajama kurta – and all mithai (sweets), from gulab jamun, ladoo, barfi, whatever lies he could put together, to make the lie seemed realistic and make me happy. The truth is, his family doesn’t even know that I exist.
We were younger and at that time, I felt that he was a sensitive guy, caring, loving, so considerate. I could think of all the positive traits about him, except that he’d never really spent money on me – but I was blinded then.
After 5 years, he mentioned about his arranged marriage was about to happen. It was shocking and so devastating! I felt like I could not just pull out myself from our relationship, as he loved me so much and he had made me really fallen head over heels with him.
I decided that even after he got married, I pleaded that we could marry, after all I couldn’t leave without him. He already warned me that he would try to introduce me to his family but there’s just NO GUARANTEE. I agreed – thinking that in few years or so, things will change.
I don’t really want to blame him for what really happened since I have also insisted about our marriage. However my heart got tired of waiting for that day that he would be out from his Amie’s saree. I just want to get out from this relationship while I can still muster all the strength that I have, for I know how strongly I feel for him, and I may end up just staying in this arrangement that I’m not known to his family, till my 2 sons grow up, till I grow old, and don’t want that to happen. I want to get out now. Our religion allows more than 1 marriage for men, and I’m legally married with him, but because of the cultural issue that I’m not from India, he prefers to keep me hidden. I tried to convince him that his mom will accept me since we already have 2 children. He says that “I don’t understand what may happen, and his family will not really accept me and they will disown him.” Also the 1st wife’s parents will sue him – he has all the excuses. I shouldn’t blame him as he clearly told that there’s NO GUARANTEE that he could introduce me to the family.
I feel that it’s better to grow old and single parent, rather than grow old with a husband who doesn’t even have the guts to fight for me.
By the way, he stays with me in Dubai, go to India one or twice in a year to see the other family and his other 3 children. I have bailed him out so many times although he earns more than me, as he always misspends. If I try to see the pros and cons in our relationship, I will have more cons in my list. The irony is,he’s prepared to divorce me, as this will be very convenient for his life, not having to face me everyday asking him to introduce me to the family. However he tells me that he doesn’t even have budget for renting a new place of his own. Yes, he only spends for our house rental and I shoulder the rest of our expenses from salt to nursery fees. So there’s not really much reasons to stay except for my love, which I won’t let love linger this time around.
And there’s a saying that “if a relationship has to be a secret, you shouldn’t be in it.”
It sounds you have some difficult decisions ahead. I wish you and your children all the best.
Thanks Rakhee! And all my best wishes to you!
Thank you for sharing your story. Over the past year I have met with a very very similar situation. I’ve been trying to decide what to do about it and your story has really helped me see the big picture and what may become of it down the road. Again, thanks for sharing.
Well, it happened to me too. The indian man I dated dumped me even if he said he cared for me because his mother doesn’t allow him to date someone outside from his race. The worst thing is that, I do not know why after two months’s time has decided to move next to my apartment and now I have to live next door to someone who have not fight for his feelings for me and will soon live and see his indian bride. Now, where is the sense of that? I do not know what I can call him but I just could not think of reason why a man I thought is educated does not know it is not ethical to disturb a woman he dumped and then he decided to live next to her. Where is the heart?
Sorry to hear about your story, very sad indeed.
your blog is so interesting and makes me keen to meet you, unfortunately i live in bangalore. you can reach me at abdulbangalore@yahoo.com
almost everything of what you have written is true, I somehow feel that it is the upbringing and the kind of people they live with that makes the behaviour of a Man/Woman.
So nice to find a post by someone very honest and not scared to tell the real opinion about Indian men. I’m dating a Malayali guy for 2 years now. I’ve met his family and they seem very happy that I’m his girlfriend. This is, I think, because they are poor. They are the most beautiful people in the world, but you can’t deny that a poor Indian family would not be happy when an opportunity to raise itself arises, if you know what I mean.
My boyfriend used to lie A LOT at the beginning of the relationship, as it’s normal to do so in their culture. Basically the reasoning goes: if the wife is happy about what a husband says, then it’s okay, doesn’t matter if it’s a lie or not”. So it took a lot of tears and examples to change his mind. I still catch him lying though, but only occasionally.
He stopped drinking and smoking for me as he knows that if I ever catch him doing any of it, I will never come back. So far I’ve never caught him, and even my friends never saw him doing these things.
He also sometimes breaks things when he gets angry. I don’t know how many mobiles were broken this way. He doesn’t hit me but sometimes I’m scared at how angry he gets. But then this anger dissipates as fast as it started. It’s freaky and I hope he will change, but some say it will even become worse…
What I love about him is how much more open minded he is than men in his area. He respects women a lot, but not as much as a Westerner would, of course. So he still has the cultural thing of expecting me to make food for him, for example, but I’m teaching him to cook too. Also we sometimes have to play the Indian roles of me being obedient girlfriend and him being controlling, when we visit traditional villages. But among international friends we are equals.
Now for the white girls dating Indian men: please respect their customs at least outwardly. If you boss him around, he will be laughed at by everyone, even women. He can’t marry you if you do so. If you go around in bikini in the area he lives, he will feel ashamed and very likely not marry you (that’s if you’re looking to marry one – if you love him that much). For us these things seem normal, but not to the eyes of an Indian.
Also no matter how much love there is, an Indian guy, who has never been abroad, will always look at you as a successful foreigner who will help him out. I, therefore, don’t spend a penny on my bf and he’s the one meeting me in Asian countries when I’m travelling outside of India (I live in India most times). When an Indian man starts spending money for you and supports you, that’s a good sign.
I’m still not sure about the marriage, although my boyfriend is almost convinced that I will marry him. He’s very interested in discussing passport and marriage issues with his friends who are married to foreign women. All of our friends, in fact, already call us a married couple and some keep asking when is our marriage. Who knows, I’m still not sure if I should marry him.
Dreams, as well as the silent voice inside me says that I should wait, so I will. So strange, he seems perfect, but for some reason I can’t marry him now.
I can’t stay in India for long times because I just get too upset at the inequality of men and women and I can even get rude about these things. Like in the place where I live I have very good reputation (as you know it’s extremely important in India – I don’t care about it but I think I’m naturally not doing anything considered bad by Indians). So when, for example, my Indian friends see me with a girl who wears something revealing, they give disapproving looks. Or I remember one time I went without my boyfriend (but with an Aussie girl-friend) for a couple of day’s short travel, when I returned some of my boyfriend’s friends were not too happy about it. I mean come on, can’t I have LIFE?
There are many, many many many girls who get used by Indian men. What happens usually is either girls look for sex at first, or are unexpectedly chatted up by attractive young Indian guys. Clueless about their culture and poverty, they think Indian guys truly love them. But actually those guys usually only love the status that comes along with dating a white chick, or their wallets/opportunity to get out of India. That’s a sad fact.
I can’t even count the times I was told not to marry and Indian, especially a malayali. They really have a bad reputation, and I’m talking about the ones who never travelled abroad thus are totally ignorant about the world outside of India. So many girls got hurt, even some that I know.
A girl from Italy recently married an Indian waiter who is half malayali half east-Indian. I straight away noticed his controlling attitude and developed a dislike for him. If that girl would talk over him, she would get shouted at. Sometimes he points at a place in the restaurant for her to sit and she does, like an obedient dog. If my boyfriend would do that to me, I would split up right there. I guess some girls can tolerate more, much more. Anyways not even a week of their marriage had passed and guess what happened… She got punched in the face by her hubby in front of a crowd. Nobody helped her (as mainly Indian men were around). And that’s the start of the marriage. What will happen next?
Probably you see my confused thoughts from the confused writing here. But thank you for the opportunity to put my heart out and keep blogging, you are doing a great job!
I too lived in India for a year ( In 2011 til 2012) and I now have an Indian boyfriend since the past year ( i have been home for 7 months now). He does have ALOT of the typical traits of an indian man which sometimes REALLY annoys me. But he is learning to concider my culture just as i take his into concideration. He is becoming more open minded now especially after visiting Uk twice now.
But yes usually our massive arguments are because of the culture clashes. Him telling me what to wear so that people dont think i am a slut etc…
It sounds like you have found a good person there, great to hear.
Thanks for sharing StarGirl 🙂 I have enjoyed reading your posting and love to hear about real-life experiences. I will remember some of what you have written and hopefully learn from your experiences.
Ever heard of Swami Vivekananda,A Hindu Bengali Mystic who mesmerized every American through his speech at Parliament of world religion in 1893…If you read his thoughts and ideology then most of your misconceptions will be cleared.He influenced some of the most renowned personalities of west such as the greatest inventor of all time Nikola Tesla,celebrated Russian poet Leo Tolstoy,J.D Salinger,Physicist lord kelivin and later Beatles George Harrison…I don’t want to write big words here but before writing any culture you should have done proper research rather than making nebulous comments about particular group…best wishes
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Just stumbled over your blog. Your writing is so lucid and insightful. Keep writing!
I’m originally from India and I married an Indian. We came to the US in our early twenties to do our Masters. We had the same goals and same dreams so it was easy for us to stay in a relationship for eleven years even though his family of origin never accepted me. From my experiences, I know that my husband has changed a lot from when we first started dating but there still exist many characteristics of the stereotype. I don’t think this will ever change and it’s something I will have to learn to adjust to so as to make my life easier because I cannot imagine a life without him. For instance, he expects me to ‘just let go’ when his family of origin makes derogatory comments about me or says something mean to upset me. He’d rather I let go than set firm boundaries with his family of origin. It’s like they can walk right into our home and tell us where to place our couch but I should just put on a game face and smile and say ‘what a marvelous idea’.
Most Indian families of origin I’ve come to know, including my own are very dominating and don’t understand the concept of boundaries. When my husband is not under the influence of his family – he is an angel from heaven, my hero and my best friend. And then again, it’s ingrained in his psyche that he is responsible for his parents happiness and even perhaps all the other family members so he sometimes loses focus in the marriage. I’m not taking up for him, it’s just that I try hard to get into his shoes so I can protect myself and our marriage. So, bottomline from my experiences, maybe a nice, sweet, charming Indian man who breaks the stereotype might exist or you might fall in love with somebody who is open minded and ready for change in thinking patterns but you might want to get to learn a little about his family of origin if you plan on taking it to the next level because you don’t want to be in love with a man who is already in love with his family. So even if he seems intelligent, charming and does not get along a chaperon(ha ha), dig a little into his family. Also, a bit of advice, I’m going to give it whether you need it or not: please don’t date an Indian man who has too many women in the family – too many sisters or sisters-in-law. Especially if he comes from a stereotypical traditional Indian family. Most of the women are very clingy to the men in the family and you might find yourself fighting for your husband’s attention even if you’re a perfectly secure and confident woman. Just too grating on the nerves and plain irritating, so try to avoid those types. Hope this helps. Good luck and considering it’s been a year since you wrote this one, hope you’ve already found the man of your dreams! 🙂
Thanks for your insights, it is always helpful to hear others experiences.
Haven’t met the man of my dreams yet, but happy to keep looking 🙂
I am an Indian woman married to an Indian man. Both of us are born and brought up in India.
I live in Qatar and work in a multinational organisation with Westerners and Arabs. As the years went by, I began to look at my people(living in Qatar and in India) through an outsider’s eyes. One of the biggest differences is the way women are treated in public.
In most places in India, if you are young, single, at some time or the other, you would have been hassled, touched, followed by random men on the street/public transport. The worst time to be in India- especially northern India is during the festival of Holi. Passers-by don’t want to get involved because the police would probably harass them and make their life miserable.
In the GCC countries, women are treated with respect – a woman (dressed in a short skirt/shorts can walk in a public space, without being worried about being hassled, stared at and/or teased by the GCC nationals). Remember, in this part of the world, the women are expected to dress modestly, i.e, cover their head and body. Here, the Indian man dare not show his true colours, because the law favours the woman and if a woman complains about a man, he will be jailed- no questions asked.When it comes to choosing between money and leering at women, they have chosen money. However, it does not stop them from commenting about the woman in their mother-tongue and laughing at the woman behind her back.This has resulted in single men from South Asian countries, not being allowed in malls on weekends when there are more women in the malls.
Why do the GCC nationals(who live in a very conservative society) behave better than the Indian men? The reason is that they are taught from childhood to respect women, be it their mother, sister, cousins etc. When they go out in the public, they continue that behaviour.
On the other hand, Indian, Arab(non-GCC nationals) men, Pakistanis, Bangladeshi men are taught that the women are born to take care of them and make their life comfortable. As long as the man has a job and earns money, has a few kids, he has done his duty as a man.
We all know that most of the educated, urban Indian men (and his mother and father) living in cities, believe that it is okay to beat up their wives if they do not LISTEN TO/OBEY them.
Sadly, there was a time – my grandfather’s generation that believed in treating women with respect. Modern Indian men, do not treat women with respect (like the GCC nationals) or as equals(like the Westerners). For them, the women are a plaything and a slave – to be used for their pleasure and comfort.
It is sad, but looking at other cultures may help India find a way to change for the better. Unfortunately I think cultural change is going to take a very long time here.
This really resonated with me. I had a similar experience when I visited Dubai and Abu Dhabi from India. I was expecting that I would be treated similarly as I was in India, since these places also have conservative social mores.
However, the staring and leering was completely absent. I do not have an insider’s view of Emirati society, but I felt safe and respected as a female visitor.
I do not feel as safe or respected as a woman in India, my birthplace and its a crying shame. Yet the degree of contempt that Indian society has for women will take centuries to undo. Unfortunately, Indian men know this. They know that the odds are stacked up against women in India, and therefore see no need to treat the female sex with respect and consideration
Hi Mate,
Your negative comment about Indian guys are making things difficult for me 🙂 .. I have lived in Australia for 16 years and I think I have absorbed best of both cultures.. I see lots of discrimination against Indian guys when it comes to dating Aussies (white) females.
I personally would prefer white female over Indian females just because for me they are more ajustable … I don’t follow Indian culture, religious practices etc … But general openion amongst ladies are the all Indians are unhygienic and bad partners… Can u please suggest any tricks for someone like me who is not related to any camp in perticular 🙂
I have no advice for anyone, just commenting on my own experience here in India.
Good luck in your search.
Your request for advice was so long ago that you will likely not revisit this post and see this but if you do… Continue to be yourself, be sincere, genuine and straight forward, look for women who exhibit kindness, compassion, understanding and an open and broad mind and are not superficial and shallow and have values you admire/share and would admire/share your values. Look for them in places that are kindred to those behaviors and to your interests. For example, volunteering on a regular basis for causes you are interested in, activities you are interested such as a pottery class, poetry class etc. that meets weekly, a book club, places and activities that attract international people, a Hindu temple, a Mosque, a Buddhist temple; If you are a vegetarian get involved with a vegetarian society and go to events or volunteer. A white Australian female in those environments may be more sophisticated/cultured and open minded than what you have encountered.
Well Ajay, it is but true. I am in western world and her comments are just but true and sorry to the very few who might be different. I met a man who is an engineer and thought is intelligent but he do not have the guts to stand for his feelings but dump a woman he professed to have liked and wanted to marry to an Indian woman whom he met for a week just because Mama said he must marry an indian woman of the same caste etc.
Yes .. you are almost right .. I am an Engineer 24yr old and I don’t get serious with girls .. but that’s because .. I have so much work to do .. my hobbies .. that I feel are more important to me .. I like to be friend with people of different cultures and interests and talents.. It is just so much fun .. add flavours to life .. for marriage I am looking for my parents to arrange me some girl of their likings .. My parents are cool, If I want to marry some girl for some other caste or race they are ok with it after all It’s my life and I have to live with the person .. It’s just I don’t feel like I have found my dream girl … May be the kind of guy you want to meet is just busy at doing something more important or having fun with his friends or busy at playing some musical instruments or busy in discussing that recipie of spanish cuisine with friend he made.. point is it’s hard to meet a nice guy all over the world .. not just in India.. you got to be extremly lucky to meet a person who is special .. because ..he won’t come out shouting or post his advertisement on the internet..
I agree with what you have written, but I don’t think you should just settle for the girl that your parents choose. Take a risk and find a woman who you will fall madly in love with.
He has no reason to. Arranged marriages work very well for Indian men and their families. They are fawned over and treated like royalty by the wife’s family. After the wedding, the wife moves into her husband’s house, adapts to their lifestyle, behavior patterns, food and value system. The man doesn’t change a thing, yet gets a wife who bends over backwards to please him and his family. She’s one against an entire family.
You can imagine how that plays out. This man here, doesn’t want to do the hard work of wooing a girl and getting her to like him. He can get a submissive, obedient wife through an arranged marriage and that’s what he wants.
Things have changed biwo. Have you heard of 498a, DV which are misused by wives indiscriminately to set criminal charges on the entire husbands family just to get their things done. These laws are used extensively to extort money. More than 25% of the marriages end up with a 498a kind of cases.
I am not sure if you are still in touch with present day India. Marriages for men are turning into hell holes for them.
Thanks for your thoughts. I am very much in touch with present day India, as I live in it every day.
Rakhee – I meant that comment for Biwo who seems to be a feminist extremist :-). Your thoughts though ??
Sorry about that confusion. I don’t know enough about the specific law you are talking about to comment on it with any authority at this time.
Hi, I have been dating an Indian man from Himachal Pradesh for several months now. I am quite confused about his behavior and I am not sure what to do. We met in July 2012 while I was doing a course and we liked each other straight away, I never thought of dating an asian man before let alone and Indian man as I always frowned on certain custom (ie. arranged marriages) and considered them very old fashioned. I am Italian, I was married for many years and after the marriage I had a two and half years relationship which I was finding hard to forget, I didn’t like anyone for a long time but I was charmed by the big smiling eyes of this man and his kind manners, we hang out for two months almost every days and he seemed to wanting me to know many aspects of his culture. Although at first he wanted me to hide from his friends that we were having a romantic affair but after a while it became obvious to everybody. I didn’t take it seriously at the beginning as I was still trying to forget my old boyfriend and but I didn’t like someone for long time and I guess I kind of let things going a bit too fast. the hiding upset me a little bit as i didn’t understand but he said that he didn’t want people to gossip. and in fact as we came out in the open more, although he never showed me where he lived or introduced me to his parents, things started to get a little weird. he started withdrawing from me and acting different and saying that he was busy with family, the his mother was sick and other excuses. I also pushed him away and said that I needed some time alone but I missed him much and perhaps realized only then that I had fallen in love with him. His Indian friends started to drive me crazy, gossiping etc. and I don’t know how much was out of jealousy or real interest for us, but they were trying to make me believe that he has a habit of liking tourists but never gets serious with them. We then met again and talked long hours and what came out was that his family was putting pressure on him to marry and that the facts that everyone was talking about us made things worse, he also was not sure if I was going to call him or keep in touch with him once I was back in Europe as it happened to him before to fall in love with a foreigner and things went wrong, so he didn’t want to loose me but he didn’t want to commit either …yet. I am now back home and we have been talking on the phone and skype every weeks, we have plans to meet again as I am going back to India soon (for other reasons too), he says things at home are better now but last week I told him I could go to his town and spend some time with him before starting working elsewhere, what he replied is that he prefer to meet me later, away from his friends and family so that we can spend some time to understand how we feel and see if we get on well (we did argue a lot the previous time… I am Italian after all and have a temper so when things weren’t clear I forced him to open up, I guess that Indian women are more docile and submissive!). I am feeling frustrated as the “hiding” doesn’t feel right for me, he expects me to understand his family pressure but I don’t really, I could if he said he loved me but he doesn’t say the big word although he calls me all the time and he’s always happy to hear from me and he’s very gentle in his voice. I also have to add that I am older then him and I have been married in the past, I have no clue if this, added to the fact that I am white, is going to be a problem with his family that probably has more traditional values. Some of his Indian friends told me that their families want them to marry Indian girls vs foreigners as they fear that foreign women don’t care for family, but others tell me that being an area with of tourism they are more open then other parts of India. Also what I fear is that how do I know I want to commit until I know his family? I would like to know him better without all this complications. In Italy you don’t know the guy until you meet his mother… should I run or should I stay??? any advice that you can give me it will be very valuable to me as I am finding it hard to understand how to behave and don’t want to get hurt or hurt him either. Thank you
I really don’t know what to say. You know him, so I would suggest that you trust your core instinct. If you believe he loves you then follow your heart, but if you think he may not have your best interests at heart, then perhaps its time to let go.
All the best.
Wow! Is Western society really that perfect?!!! Ok granted there are more than a few Indians who conform to a certain pattern – enough to be pegged onto a stereotype. Howcome tho we never get to hear the ills of western society being discussed in the same fashion (Ooops! keep forgetting what a perfect society that is) . And sorry more than a few Indian men maybe misogynist but most western women are not that great to pursue either considering most of them choose fulfillment over loyalty. Please! Fidelity is certainly not a strong point when it comes to western women. Indian men are always stereotyped as Mama’s boys but ofcourse since no other woman can love a man like his mother it’s only a natural instinct . Instead of pointing fingers at Indian men try and understand that if countries like Italy and Australia were by some quirk of fate to become as poor as India the same situations would crop up in your societies and this is exactly how the men in your countries would behave. Word of advise to Indian men, these annoying, whining western women are not worth it! as these princesses would have no qualms to up and walk the hell out of your life once they got what they wanted and you don’t do it for them anymore. Oh yeah! May I please . And stop calling Indian women docile and submissive. Italian women were not much different until the recent past. It’s not like Italian society eschewed the patriarchal stage in their transition from a hunter gatherer society to the current modern society. Western women may not be physically abused by their men but their men are never capable of loving their women in a loyal or self-sacrificing way the way non-western men do, so how do u expect western women to love back in that same fashion. These women are best avoided if you want my advice.
Thanks for your comments. I write based on my own observations. Clearly I am not commenting on western behaviour here, so I haven’t written about it, that doesn’t mean I am saying that western society is perfect.
I didn’t ask for your advice about what type of women I should be dating, but thanks for providing it based on your observations. Given that you consider physically abusing woman as a way of demonstrating loyalty and self-sacrificing love, I suspect you are not someone I would want in my life either.
Classic! Please don’t commit until his parents are on board. If he doesn’t have the stones to stand up to his family, or at least stand up for you, it’s not a good sign.
If you are hoping for marriage and if he won’t allow you to meet his family, at least some of them, I would recommend you cut your ties especially if he intends on staying in India. My experience has taught me that if he doesn’t have the courage to introduce you and stand up for what he wants (to be with you), then your heart will be broken in the end.
@angad – thanks for your brilliant explanation of the Indian Man. @Rakhee – a contentious subject, no doubt. Brave of you to bring it up.
Lady if u are lucky enough thn meet me. . I ll show what indian man are. ,. . Yeah in every race we get good people bad people. . Some seem intrestng abt some you nevr care. . All i knw tht i m the best in everyway
Hi Aussie Girl
An article worth appreciating. Your observations are a clear reflection of the state of some section of the Indian men (stereotypes).
Let me tell you something, (this is from an exact discussion i had with a professor who has won prestegious awards and currently teaches in University of Pune) The indian men are actually a victim of confusions mainly because of socially induced perceptions ranging from Obeying to Leading.
Lets begin…..
Majority of Hindu people worship POWER, in the form of a goddess PARVATI. Many ‘avatars’ representing many other goddesses. So its fine here. Indian men know and realize that women is the inspiration / the power / the driving force.
So do most men treat their wives well? I mean do they treat her with such respect? NO.
Why?
First…..The worshipping part is pretentious and here comes the reality. Since childhood boys are exposed to a culture that its ‘ok to be authoritative’.
Most of this is gathered from fathers / uncles and all the men with a proud moustache (but they really can carry it huh ;-)). And then the male in the movies are portrayed as righteous. Even in mythology men have been shown to be authoritative.
So….. this is no big deal…..right? I mean with education and maturity these men should be able actually guage the problems and fix it…….NO.
Thats not what happens. The righteous men have the priority lane in the society. And habbits becomes a law. Cycle repeats.
So this in short explains in brief what actually happens to an indian boy till manhood.
When in inter – caste – racial relation why do they back off if they have so much of hold over their families? Simple because they actually dont. Social acceptance is bare minimal when it comes to doing your way. The society does not objects dowry or ill treatment by the indian man, but are the first to toss you over if you break their rules with respect to love and marriage.
All this was ok till seeds of social equality were sowed by an ex indian PM for allowing girls to study free till a certain age. The women actually made the best out of this and actually have risen to a much better position (in terms of education and jobs) despite pressure and struggle.
This has actually shaken up the whole society. Men who were supporting their families are losing their grip over preferential treatment as girls are equally supporting their families.
On sidelines – many instances where guys dont get girls as girls are OVER educated in a country where engineering is considered the least acceptable requirement for arranged marriages.
So lately you find indian men taking much more cautious approach in terms of looks, well being and manners (civic sense). Yeah its coming, things are getting better.
The whole social problem has actually put the south asian men to be least preferred race among girls. Some are able to prove this whole sterotype thing wrong.
But,
Despite being less hard working (physical) than other asian counterparts, the indian men come with a sharp mind which can perform the best of ‘JUGAAD’ – a term used in india to describe a workaround to a problem with no imminent solution. Trust me the best minds are mostly the ones from south asia. That does not mean disrespect to any, its simply that no matter how poor a family is the children are designed to compete and excel.
The current economic stability and growth, really followed with access to funds for higher education (Indian and Western universities) is causing some sort of rebellion between the OLD BAD and the NEW GOOD. Most parents now are accepting the fact that there is world beyond THEIR WAY of doing things.
You can blame, you can feel disgusted or you can be hurt, but there are EXTREMELY important values that the indian system still holds. It was that soul is present, body is missing.
So currently we are work in progress, be right back up shortly with the new and improved indian generation. 🙂
And please dont use TOI-let newspaper for your research.
Have pleasant trips to India.
Thanks for your insight – it makes a lot of sense. Why did I meet and fall in love with a guy whose family will not accept a foreigner. . even today as things are quickly changing. . .my heart is crushed
Hmm . . No Problem. No Offense Lady.
Enjoy your stay in India . . !!
Namaste . . !!
“Aussie Girl” Where i could understand the satire throughout most Parts of your Article, that Bit about a so called survey In Times of India proving Indian Men were some sort of sadistic Chauvinists pissed the shit outta me. I would not jump onto a Patriotic train, rather i would like to ask you a simple question . . . Do you think us Indians are so Uneducated that we would admit in a Survey that we beat-up our women folk? we do so or not is another thing, but certainly beating up women is not something most Indians would be proud of and go on accepting it In Public surveys.
Domestic Violence is Not Nation specific Lady. I Claim European Homes are Much more abusive and Violent when compared to Indian Homes, where a House’s Honor is represented by the Ladies of The house. We Worship Women Lady , Can you name One religion or Culture where a god is a Female? Well The Answer is There is Only One Hinduism. Care to Note, I Do not Vouch For Muslim Homes.
Then Again the Survey you depend upon for your Wisdom may be true . . . . done in some Interior Part of India’s Tribal Areas.
My Point is, that Domestic Violence is not a Culture specific thing . . . but more of an Education-ethos based shit.
Then About that Gross Spectacle of Pulling out of the Pricks and pissing on the road side you encounter so Often . . . surely is Gross and i had a Slight Giggle when i read it in your article, it may be a Scandalous sight for a European but so Is Smooching in Public From the Indian Perspective. You Gotta go when you gotta go . . . :p
Such bad standards of Personal and Public hygiene have again . . . stemmed out of 1000 Years of suppression where the Gross Indian Population was made to believe they were 3rd Class Citizens in Their own land, First by The Muslims and Then British. Beaten like Animals, forced to live like animals. You would find it difficult to correlate the two . . . but thats what happens when a population is subjected to extreme hardships, they tend to disregard minor issues like Hygiene and stuff placing livelihood of themselves and their families above the rest.
Just Imagine a Man who has to Work all day sweating in the sun to earn a loaf of bread . . do you think he would have the time to go to a proper loo? he would not . . . slowly and slowly such behavior becomes socially accepted because it is such a common occurrence. Similar behavior in present times is a remnant of social habits formed then . . . things have not much changed Post Independence either . . . where the Mass Population still faces immense hardships. It’s tragic to see a Race That has taught the world about religion and civilization suffer like India did . . and we have only just started recovering Lady.
I Have to give it to you though Lady, Keen observations and precisely put.
Thanks
Vichitra Veer
Thanks for your comments.
I was merely reporting what the TOI said, if you don’t believe their survey then perhaps take that up with them. I do agree domestic violence is not limited to India, but I do not agree that it is a an education issue. Domestic violence occurs in all levels of socio-economic status.
As I mentioned in my article, yes sanitation is a major issue in India. Something so basic that is not given the due attention by authorities.
Judging by the Article of Yours i expected you to take criticism more sportingly. Or did you expect just APPLAUSE for your article?
And why should i take take that up with TOI, i do not read that crap . . nor do i believe it. You quoted something from It to which i disagreed.
You need to be more of a deep reader and not just a deep observer (like you are, i give it to you) to understand what i wrote. Thanks, disappointed.
Adios.
I have no issue with criticism at all, I would not publish all these comments if I did. But I didn’t conduct the survey so I can’t speak to whether it is true. I just made an observation based on what I read.
chill-out dude – you are being so rude and I have no problem believing domestic violence is all too common in India when this is all it takes to make your head explode because I’m definitely thinking – sadly – that those statistics are right on
And there is a difference between Educated & learned. As we say Sikshit and Gyani in Hindi.
Dunno how i ended up coming across your blog but couldnt resist to comment! 😀
Well i accept and ackonwledge some of the problems you have faced regarding Indian men but i dont think you have put much effort into analysing why indians act the way we do. we guys have a very distinct culture which has much effect on how we react to social situations. Obviously considering the poverty and population of india, there’s bound to be a large dirty underbelly which would disgust the average foreigner. I am sure the homeless type in the western world are no better than the rickshaw pullers of india when it comes to outrageous public behaviour. In India, its hard to enforce discpline cause discipline and a socially correct society is hardly one of our priorities. We are still a developing country with other issues. Hence you have the filth on the street. The everyday life of the people is such a struggle that they dont care about not spitting on the roads, not staring at women. I am not excusing these activities but i am just making a case of why Indians behave the way they do. Its not exactly a cultural thing, more of a socio-economic situation. I am sure you would agree that the economically better off men dont indulge in such shameless activities. Now you claim to be shocked at the “intelligent” Indian males behaviour too. Once again, you need to understand our culture. We Indians are not encouraged too much to mix with the opposite sex. In fact in some cases its actually discouraged. Its changing fast but you still never ever hear people sharing their dating life with their parents(that is if they have one!!). Its because of the way we were brought up. The well off respected middle class teach their kids to not do anything which would embarrass the family name. And for the previous generation, having a girlfriend/boyfriend was a rather scandalous issue and hence most of these goody good boys tend to avoid going that path. From my personal experience, the “good” Indian guys worst nightmare would be to come across as flirting/hitting on a girl unintentionally! In their mind, its a wrong shameful thing to do because if the girl rejects their advances, he might be labelled as indulging in “ladkibaazi” which is not a “good thing”. Thats not to say that they dont like you, they just dont know how to express themselves without being cheap(mind you they are not being heap in your world, but their upbringing puts a lot of questions in their mind). The next urban generation will be a lot better in this regard since most of us are facing this transition period of the fusion of western culture with indian tradition. Its just a bad time to be a “good” shy image conscious Indian guy which is what most of the upper middle class guys are. We guys are actually clueless on how to deal with girls. We never got any advice from an older friend,brother or father. Our only reference point of dealing with girls in romantic situations comes from foreign movies and we know that those concepts would be ridiculous in an Indian setting. Its not like Indian guys dont/wont like you, they just dont know what to do about it.
Regarding the dowry system or the sexual violence accusations, sadly i cant deny them, nor can we excuse them. In fact the 2 problems are interconnected. The Indian family setup traditionally has been one in which guys stays with their parents and its the daughters who have to leave home and make a new home with the guys parents. Traditionally Indian girls were homemakers and hence the reasoning for dowry was that since the guy is taking care of the girl, she should bring something with her( kinda like an investment, in a very crude sense). Now when India started culturally changing, the dowry system was affected and indirectly domestic violence went up. I believe it to be a transition phase and hope that the future generations wont face these problems. What happened in the 1960s and moreso in the 1990s, the dowry tradition was questioned and even considered socially degrading as families became more and more “modern”. Now the guys brought up during this era expected a dowry when getting married, and their expectations rose with a booming economy however due to the newly attached social stigma with dowry, they often had to “settle” for little or very less dowry. I do hope that you are aware that most indian marrianges are arranged marriages. Anyways seeing their parents, it had been inbuilt in the male psyche that they would be the master of the house and the wife and when their authority came into question by the newly empowered, it comes across as a rude shock and unaccpetable to these typical indian guys. And they lash out in the only way they can- sexual violence. Once again i do believe this is a problem of transition of the culture and its on the decline in the urban society but its still widespread in the rural areas i suppose. The current educated generation is greatly boycotting such shameless pratcices and hopefully we will be rid of it entirely soon
Also something i would like to add that marriage in india is considered to be a really big deal. Thats why the age old wisdom still persists that divorce is not an option (i made that up, dont think thats an actual saying of indian wisdom! xD) . But theres a big social stigma attached to divorce in india and the society pressurizes you to work through any difficulty in the marriage and since traditionally, the indian family is patriarchal in nature, this meant the women had to do all the sacrificing. This age old mentatlity still exists in some males but once again, its more of a generation gap and we are going through a transition period to a hopefully better future ! 🙂
Ahh and the common accusation of Indian males being pampered by their moms. Once again traditionally guys stay with their parents so theres an extra “incentive” for parents to pamper the kid who would look after them in their old age. Also Since the previous generation of indian women were mostly home makers, they spent an excessive amount of times in taking personal care of their kids and develop a special attachment to them. Thats why the fathers who were busy working are not accused of being overtly attached to their kids. And the mother son bond is anyways the strongest bond in the world, so well….
What can i say, the Indian mother has a special hold on their sons and thats kinda prevalent all over India and even among NRIs i would think. Dunno if it would change in the future but considering that guys are becoming more and more independent and there are more and more nuclear families, i dunno. Things might change in the future. But our generation guys are still pretty attached to our mothers and you will have to wait a long time to find a guy who isnt. Good luck! 🙂
Oh and in case i forgot to mention, another reason why you get stared down a lot by streetside men is that an average Indian is sexually repressed. Sex is not discussed in the open, the girls tend to wear conservative clothing(those who dont, face the same problems as you) and an average indian male(not the office going type mind you) is simply too excited by anything and too indifferent to bother to conceal his emotions, hence the staring. WE normal guys notice you pretty girls equally, its just that we have acquired the class to hide it!!
ps- sorry for all the typos…
Can you explain this taboo around divorce? Why would a women prefer to stay in an unhappy relationship if her husband wants a divorce ( especially when she is still young and beautiful)?
In Indian society women are expected to keep the marriage together since it is in their interest to stay married. Most women are raised with marriage as the only goal of their lives and are trained from an early age to be good wives and mothers.
Men are given a lot more respect, freedom and choices in Indian society, so a divorce affects a man less severly than it does a woman. A divorced woman is shunned, ostracised and looked down upon because she has refused to perform the function she was raised for — being a good wife, daughter-in-law and mother.
Since men have more power in marriage and are less affected by the social stigma of divorce, it often falls on women to adjust and sacrifice in the marriage to make it work. The men enjoy a free ride as the wife moves in with the husband’s family.
In reality, marriage in India is structured for a man’s convenience, since women give up so much when they get married. Yet society convinces women that its in their benefit to get married and stay married.
My honest advice to white women who wish to marry Indian men is that they think long and hard about all the adjustments they will have to make. Once you become an Indian man’s wife, you will be confronted with the same expectations, dilemmas and challenges that Indian married women struggle with everyday.
Please choose with your eyes open and with razor sharp clarity. Indian marriage is NOT women-friendly and you’ll get the short end of the stick.
“Someone please stick up for Indian men and the one who breaks the stereotype please let me know.” May I request you to let me know what stereotype you have in your mind about Indian men. If I truly find myself not being one of them, I would feel honoured to meet you even if it be for once.
If you’re not sure what I mean, I suggest you read my post again.
Lol. I hope you’ve managed to meet some decent Indian men by now. I have actually written a couple of posts praising Indian men. They mostly come from my experience of how I’m treated. BUT, I’ve written equally as many on how poorly people are treated. Actually, there’s more posts on my blog about archaic values and bad treatment of people. I do know some good Indian men though. Maybe it’s because of the city I lived in (Amritsar). It’s completely different than most of India from what I’ve discovered (and not always in good ways.
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Wow! That was great to read!!! I’m going to sound pretty cheap and easy but hey it happens. I’ve dated many Indian men from all over India infact I’ve never had a white boyfriend (long story but let’s just say I like my meat cooked). I am currently dating a guy from UP (uttar pradesh) and he has those bad happits like picking his nose in public or burping in my face. It’s really easy to say he is the man of my dreams! My last boyfriend was from Gujarat and he was a mummy’s boy even though he was close to 30. My new guy is great! He is respectful of his parents but he also lives his own life here in Australia. We are trying to convince his parents to give us there blessings so that we can marry but it’s not so easy. His mother is not agreeing with us because she wants to choose his bride. Long story short Indian guys are do different to us but that’s what makes them so fascinating!
I hope all the best for a happy ending with you and your lovey 🙂
One other suggestion – if he goes back to India – make sure that you and he are already married. His mother will have a bride all ready for him when he returns and do her best to manipulate and force him into this arranged marriage – speaking from personal experience – no joke.
You are not alone and I am in that boat now. Hope you are so okay now.
Not that I deny yours or uncharitable comments about Indian men made by a lot of people here as entirely untrue but I would like to point out that neither did Western societies start out as gender egalitarian. I suggest you read up on your own history before Feminism impacted gender relations and you’d realize that the behavior of a lot of the Indian men you pointed out wasn’t much different from your own ancestors. It’s not like western society skipped the PATRIARCHY stage during it’s transition from a HUNTER GATHERER society to the current EGALITARIAN SOCIETY (if it is). I am fully aware of the plight of women in our country, but understand this! we’re managing a civilization within all this chaos and poverty, something Western society is not capable of. Western Society is very safely insulated from the natural environment thereby making traditional roles for people redundant but I seriously doubt you people would survive calamities should by some quirk of fate your well-oiled system breaks down. You can rest assured that when conditions are right Indian women will fight for themselves much the same way western women did. After all can you honestly say western men willingly relinquished the privileges afforded to them by a patriarchal society? Most western feminist sources say that western women had to fight to attain the current egalitarian society . So rather than point out the flaws of Indian men I suggest you introspect on whether your own western society can hold on to these GENDER EGALITARIAN ideals should by some quirk of fate western society finds itself in the same impoverished state most non-occidental nations find themselves in. Also I really wish Indians discussed these issues amongst themselves rather than wait for a cue from westerners
Thanks for your comments, a couple of thoughts from me:
– Whilst I may have been raised in a Western country, you will see from my profile that I am actually Indian
– My post was about my observations and feelings towards men based on my personal experiences. I think you have missed the sentiment in my words.
– I fully understand the patriarchal issues in the west, and I have never said that they still do not exist there
– Western society may not have the extremes of poverty that India has, but that is not an excuse for how people choose to behave here in India. It may explain why there is a need to urinate in the street, it does not explain why women are treated with virtually no respect in many parts of the country.
– I do not believe there will be a time for women in India until attitudes change, yours is clearly one of them.
Why are you being so defensive? What’s the point of comparing India with the West? The arc of development for Western civilisation is very different than that for Indian society. To begin with, feudalism in the West was dead by the beginning of the Industrial Revolution and family and class structures were already loose by the beginning of the Industial Age.
Not so in India. In Indian, you will find an English-speaking, 21-year old man in Levis tweeting about how he’ll kill his sister if she gets a boyfriend. Its all mixed up in India, modernity, traditionalism and individualism.
Western women weren’t so oppressed that their sex ratio was declining by the minute. Gender-based discrimination is so bad in India that many Indians don’t want to raise girls at all because we’ve made women’s lives so constricted and slavish.
If you can sleep at night knowing half of the population lives in quiet desperation then well, you’re a typical Indian man.
The first time I dated an Indian man, he raped me. I steered clear of them for another 30 years. Then I fell in love with one that I started dancing with. As soon as we started sleeping together, he wanted to get married. In fact, he said that if I didn’t marry him, he would break up with me. He needed marriage to stay involved. Read: he needed green card. Once married, he would throw tantrums because of the cats being in the house and if there was anything out of place at home, he would go into a rage. A year after the marriage, he quit his job without discussing it with me, and told me — told me — he planned to travel the world for 5 months. Really??? I said. I won’t be here when you get back. He changed his mind but still wanted to go out to events pretending that he was alone, not with me, so “women would dance with him”. what was I, chopped livre? he would flirt with women right in front of me and ignore me and then yelll at me later for being “jealous.” oh when i started protsting he started throwing his weigh around, literally. bruises up and down my airms and legs. an eye almost put out by the edge of a chair. then iswas my fault that the police came and said, you kinow you ca’nt do that you to you wife. but you don’t understand he said, she’s my wife. oh, we do understand….biut you still can’t do that to her…l
I am sorry to hear of what you have been through.
As a person who has done masters in USA and working there for a few years, I have come to observe that there is a huge gap between educated Indians and others. Even so, some Indians tend to be reclusive when dealing with women. For one thing, most of the time of an educated Indian would be spent in studies, considering the chance of getting into a good university is low. The general premise in India is that a person with good education and job would make him eligible get a good “enough” girl. So there is not much motivation to go out and try to mingle in order to find a soul mate. One should not forget that, till a few years ago, getting a job and leading a great lifestyle was also difficult. There are always exception to this too. I guess, the priorities have governed a reclusive behavior. But those with more education are now realising that finding a soul mate is really important and are departing from the norm of arranged marriage.
Dear Rakhee,
Having studied in a premier engineering college in India, I can say that a modified version of patriarchy exists in the educated elite. I would call it sadistic male chauvinism. Majority of the people cant talk straight in the eyes to a woman. So they form groups and indulge in eve teasing, so that they feel quite independent, daring, full of energy and “don’t give a damn about women” attitude. Arranged marriage has only aggravated this condition. But I guess we can wait and see what education and progressive thoughts can do to the couuntry….for if winter has come, can spring be far behind
An optimistic Indian
Hariram
I too am hoping spring is not far away
My friend, your observation is correct. I am an Indian woman, over 30 and I do not want to marry an Indian man.
I know friends who try and get laid every weekend while studying in the US, but categorically want brides from Chennai. This is because the conservatism of that city ensures that they would be the only one who ever sleep with their future wives.
Unfortunately, the ‘good’ and ‘decent’ guys in India are largely the ones who have been beaten into that mould by parenting. They won’t harm you but they may not really charm you either. The number of men who have independently used their brains to reject the negative stuff in Indian culture and internalize the positive aspects of western culture are vanishingly few. Either we’re so aggressive that we take what we want, or we are so meek so that we are harmless. The latter is better for society, but not in a healthy way.
Interesting… really. This post was introduced to me by the ONE guy friend who doesn’t fit into most of what you said. I didn’t even venture into reading comments made by men to this post of yours, for fear of running into one calling you names (It kills me to see this being done to any girl *sob sob*) for not taking into account the so called urban/urbane man.
I, you see, have been married for almost three years to a rather grounded and quietly-confident man, though even he isn’t free from the trappings of male “entitlement”. He refused a couple of girls before we met because he found them too demanding – THEY are demanding, not he incapable of MEETING DEMANDS. Also, when he once commented about what a flexible outlook I had towards life, I asked him “what is flexibility – the ability to find a middle path between the seemingly conflicting demands on each end, or the ability to completely bend one’s back to another’s will?” This question left him in a tight spot, but then I got my answer.
Trust me, lady, he may enjoy rape jokes, may be of the opinion that “women are asking for sexual violation”, doesn’t consider domestic violence as violence, will not be offended by and won’t stand up for a woman who’s being treated unfairly, will consider any woman professionally his senior as having “slept her way up”, will confidently hand you the dirty “jootha” plate after he’s finished eating and burped loudly, BUT will consider himself a GOOD MAN because he didn’t go out and rape a woman. (YET?)
There are a lot of cultural problems here, but there is still a decent amount of nice people. Very difficult to infer anything even for the ones who have lived here for a 100 years, forget about backpackers. Having said that, you gathered quite a lot with respect to the time you spent. Respect. You were a tad unfortunate to meet the wrong guys, I still wonder if a decent guy would sign up at shaadi.com. Hope you find decent men from India so that the stereotypes against us would stop. 🙂
Brilliant read, but to be brutally honest, India= 1 billion people+, 500 million different people, AT LEAST. Even God cannot decode anything about India. Cheers/
Hi Rakhee,
No sane man can contest the fact that women in India are subject to atrocities.There is so much we as a nation should do urgently to better the situation starting with incessantly shouting from the roof top that women are no less than men. It is the mind set that men are superior to women that allows a man to ‘pull it out’ in public, almost as if with a sense of pride in being able to do that while women cannot. Therefore, I see the many media stories on injustice meted out to women as a positive development. We are already doing the shouting. The shaming too has been following such stories. So, while acknowledging the enormity of the task at hand, I am very optimistic about the future.
Incidentally, I thought I could relate to your friend bringing a female friend along to meet you. At least in some parts of south India, where I come from, such an action would actually be appreciated and the guy seen as cultured. I think one would be able to better appreciate this point when one sees the action in the context of a culture in which ‘boys and girls’ hanging out is considered fine but not when it is ‘a boy and a girl’.
With all its weaknesses, India is what it is primarily because of its strong culture. I believe that while Indians who are considered elite or who have been educated abroad might be more appreciative of western sensibilities, they definitely have learnt their values from our own traditions. After all, in the Hindu way of life, which is what most people in India claim to believe in though they might not be following it honestly, woman is worthy of worship.
Best wishes,
Bala
True to an extent, but do you realise what kind of Indian men you’re apparently rubbing shoulders with? An educated, upwardly mobile Indian born
and bred woman would not even look at these kinds of men! Your situation is such that as a tourist(for want of a better word, even though u may look Indian) you are unable to socially break into the upper sections of Indian society so are forced to interact/observe the lowlife- a harsh word but effective.
As an ABCD you’d have never received acceptance from aussies- yes we know how things work there and so came to India to seek acceptance. That you will get too, since Indians are largehearted and welcoming, however if you view us with only a critical view, you’ll be disappointed.
I find it very sad that you describe the majority of the Indian population as ‘low life’s and with such disdain.
You are so associating with the wrong kind of men, and the pity is with that attitude Indian men from better backgrounds won’t even give you the time of day. Brutally honest.
Thanks for your comments. If you had read my post you would have understood that i have been backpacking and these were my observations of the men I have met.
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Actually we all indian males have a strange sense of hypocrisy around us, which you have beautifully described here. Count me in as a fan of yours…:)
Seems like you met all the wrong men! 🙂
I am strong (well, maybe not physically 🙁 ), independent, polite and (I like to think!) charming, and I know tons of other people who would fit that mould. And most have never visited any other country, although they have been exposed to a lot of modern ideas coming from the west.
I think a big part of that does come from Parenting and Education in general (including parents’ educational background), along with the society they are brought up in.
Such a great observation, Most of the Indian men are alike, Everyone want their wife to earn money and spend it for him and his family. Each and everything needs to be approved by his MON and SISTER. I sometimes wonder why the hell should he get married when he wants to be with them for ever. As far as I know, Men in India wouldnt change which is the saddest part,
Very well written and instantly subscribed!
Thank you
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Nice one Rakhee. This was an interesting (and obviously) contentious blog, but a big thumbs up for diving in and tackling this subject head on with sensitivity and humour. I’m a firm believer in opening the dialogue and making the discussion happen – only through access to all sides of the argument, with all it’s colourful, insightful and sadly, sometimes insulting facets can we all begin to understand each other and promote a true global community.
I was particularly interested in the notion (expressed not only in your blog, but also in the other pieces you referenced) that there are a plethora of cultural and psychological factors in play, including a concerning lack of guidance for young men in a changing world.
In saying this, I am not laying blame at the feet of women, rather I believe that women have what it takes to be the intelligent, empathetic and peaceful agents of change, and helping their boys be the best men that they can be would be the gift that just keeps on giving throughout their lives.
My brilliant mother, (who I’m sure you recall handing out well-deserved ear-bashings to all of us with regularity when we were young) rolled out an old but extremely relevant saying for me yesterday (when we were discussing your work).
“Educate a woman and you educate an entire family”
Cheap at half the price, huh? It’s mantra she received from her (equally brilliant) mother and has passed on to me.
In closing, I must tell you that after having known you for a long time, I have to admit to having had a BIG giggle at the notion that you are in India seeking a suitor. If this is the case, you’ve obviously had a personality transplant, haha.
Keep on keeping on, my friend. Be the change you want to see.
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In 20 years I’ve never come across a man in India. Not in my childhood, not in my school or in my college so far. Sounds funny, decoding the Indian man, when its hard finding one. All men I know, in my family or friends, never stand up for anything, not even their own interests; never accept their mistakes, specially if its a girl accusing them; are very very insecure people; Are spineless when it comes to what they believe in. For Indian men the concept of man is restricted only to the physicality and not with the mental traits that makes one a man. Without their body they are no longer men, because they r not at heart. An Indian man will never commit to vasectomy, he will only force his wife to get a tubectomy done though the former is a lot more easy, quick and simple procedure. Its all about beating up the weak and assuring yourself every now and then that you are a man. Good for them, arranged marriages. Good luck with the hunt Aussie Girl 😉 If you ever find a man, just hold on to him despite how dirty his habits are 😛 I’m sure he’ll learn 🙂 Habits can be changed, but gender 😛 LOL. Nice blog by the way. To the Indian Man- Offence intended. let’s stop being proud about wrong things bro, that’s the only way we can change.
Thanks for your comments, whilst I don’t necessarily agree with all the generalisations, I do appreciate your thoughts and sympathise with many.
Since you’ve lived all your life in Australia, a western nation, its borderline dimwitted to expect someone born and brought up in India to fit your stereotype of your ideal man with western ideals and viewpoints. You yourself have said that due to poverty and lack of facilities, guys from lower socio economic groups in India have little or no personal attributes you’d find attractive.
Thats not an issue with Indian culture or men. Australia is rich in resources, but the behaviour of aussie men and women of most age groups on a friday or saturday night after a night of heavy drinking and substance abuse does not make a pretty sight. IN fact, let me point out they are from ALL groups, from the tradie to corporate execs. That doesnt mean something is wrong with them, its just a different culture that accepts alcoholism and disrespectful boorish behaviour in public and labels it ” larakin aussie spirit”. Now a desi guy in Australia whinging about aussie girls as inappropriate would be foolish to judge since he decided to get on the plane and go there, they didn’t force him.
Now, Indian culture recognises that men and women are different and has traditional roles for them both. We are obviously different else we would not look and behave differently.
Australia is very different in this regard since the society is not ultra competitive like Indian culture. In oz, the government will basically feed and shelter anyone who hasn’t or doesnt want to get a job. If women reproduce with 5 diff men, they still get a regular income from the govt for each child, so a good solid man is not needed to bring up the kids.
In India no such frills exist, a man has to be a man and work and provide for his family or they die hungry, simple. That basically means gender roles are clearly marked and fulfilled. Man brings money home and Woman manages home.
If you are on the lookout for an Indian man brought up there, its unfair to expect him to change to a western outlook, maybe you have to do the changing or forget the whole idea.
Thanks for your comment. I don’t appreciate being called “dimwitted” and find such personal attacks unsavoury and unnecessary, however despite that I have chosen to approve your comment (albeit edited to remove further offensive comments).
I haven’t talked about Australian men here, so do not see their habits as relevant, but I would like to point out that drunken behaviour is also something I have observed in Indian men and I understand it is a significant problem particularly in lower socio economic classes, where some men abandon their “manly” duties for the drink.
I also find your underlying prejudice against single mothers extremely distasteful and offensive, but I understand the point you are trying to make comparing Australia’s welfare state to India’s. That said you have implied that Indian women do not contribute to feeding their family. From my observations, they work incredibly hard and are the backbone of most Indian families.
I would also like to say once again, I made it clear in this post that I was not seeking a romantic relationship with a man, and that was not the point of the post.
Excuse me for pointing out the obvious, but the majority of Indian women work outside the home. That the Indian government does not recognise the unorganised sector as being an income generating one does not mean that these women do not work.
Look around you. You’ll see women hauling bricks on construction sites, working as underpaid farm labourers, as domestic help in middle-class homes, as vegetable and flower sellers. You’ll find that an overwhelming number of Indian women WORK for a living. So no, gender roles are not as clearcut as you think. Man and Woman BOTH work. In fact women work while being pregnant, they work with infants strapped to their backs.
Middle and upper-class Indian women have the luxury of not working for money, but that’s not the case for other classes.
I guess the reason for not meeting a nice guy is in the article itself. You are knocking at the wrong door! Its not a surprise that people who sent request to your Shaadi profile asked about your citizenship. Those men were either looking for casual relationship or an easy ticket to Australia or an expat themselves.
You also need to understand the fact that for a nice guy, you wont their choice(no offence meant, but there would be lot of suspicions on various grounds considering present social situation in India). First choice of a guy will be a ‘born and brought up in India girl’ unless the guy himself is an NRI.
Either, you can try hard and filter out men who demeans women till you find a nice guy or date an expat.
Just my thoughts…
Absolutely agreed! Nice blog and nicer responses.
I’ve been living here in Australia for more than 4 years. At first it was hell of a different environment for me. As a 20 years old boy, I found myself in a near-isolated environment which kept me in the loop of mingling with same circle with same cultural background. Then i thought, well, it’s a new country and most people seem to be very well-mannered. So I tried to study the culture, behavior and the excitement of people differentiated with mine and what i found is that, structurally two cultures are way apart. The main aspects of both cultures such as, way of educating (not the education itself), perception, and interaction are formed in very different ways. And of course, freindships, relationships are formed and governed by two completely different ways (goods and bads exist in both). I think I’m already tormenting this blog with my huge comment, if you allow me then I can explain further.
As a response, some of my fellow Indians are indeed guilty of some disgusting habits (like spitting), but I plea not guilty on that charge and not even on coconut-oil thing…
I’d really love to explain my findings further if you kindly allow me.
Thanks for your comments and experiences of settling into a new culture. Feel free to make further comments if you would like.
Low income people have love marriage tøo. And there s no relatn b/w arrangd marriage and such habits . Its lack of civic sense, it exists n equal prop. N all type men.
But in higher income people, it may be less nt because they do love marriage(they do arrangd more) bt may be due to educatn amd awarenes
All those misbehaviour exist. But u cant put blame on arrangd marriage, its wonderful as love marriage. And mollycoddle boys are there bt nt majority. It may be due to ur age, and people here dnt have casual relations. They are up for LTRs. We have more equality and freedom in arrangd marriages nw.
Please don’t assume the people who do that are how ma majority of the men are. India is not about all that. Those guys don’t have a clue, think they know everything and can do anything. They are usually the ones who think they are too smart for an education, drink and come home to beat their wives.
And that, is the direct opposite of what Indian culture was meant to be. The thing is that with or without rules, men (and people) who want to abuse will abuse, find a way to make it right. The caste thing? It has an explanation. It has been twisted into a shameful excuse, when it was actualy very fair. It was just a classification of different jobs in society. You could change. According to what it says in teh Vedas, anybody that is educated, in the business of education is a bramhan. It never said to mistreat Shudras. The same way, there are explanations for so man yother things
I’ve seen SO many uneducated peopel that live with such a sophisticated, simple and honorable mindset.
For instance, my grandpa. That man, the more I grew up, the more I respected him. I never knew exactly why none of the women looked him straight in the eyes. It was because he had a soft spot for girls and women. He would never accept a girl’s illtreatment. He would ask in the most sweet way possible.
“Thangi, nanag swalp neer tharthi?”
Thats northern Karnataka Kannada.
He was just so soft and respectful. He never asked for much, never commented on any behavior. He could raise his voice a bit, but he never ever showed ego. He was simple, made fun of himself, worried about everyone. Kept his distance from the women, so they are comfortable. Even if I never talked like I respected him, he probably wouldn’t have a problem. But that is plain impossible.
And in the case of modern Indian boys, I was in a ‘semi’international school. We had a bit of world exposure but not extra-western. And I’m not joking, I cannot see myself with the kind of Indian you describe or with many other kinds.
These kids could impress ANYONE. The watchman, the president, harvard, and cambridge and they did. It wasnt BECAUSE they were westerm. They were modern, but still modern Indian. We listened to Jay-Z and hindi hits. We ate at the street corners. We dressed in miniskirts when it was appropriate. We were in kurtis when required. Most of us developed a very good head on our shoulders. We didn’t relentlessly roam around the city. In fact, we barely ever went out that way. But I probably won’t find more fun or more sophisticated youngsters. Nothing was too disgusting for us, not unless it had to do with morals. No house, no food, no road, no city. Humility, is one of the best things India can teach you. To accept and low, adjust, allow. To not let things bother you. To not go around wrinkling your nose all the time. To survive everywhere. ts very easy to get used to a country where everything is abundant. But if you corner yourself with your superficial standards, you have only a handful of countries, only a small percentage of people you can accept.
And the cleanliness? 1.6 BILLION PEOPLE. LOW LITERACY. come ON.
The crazy roads?? Haaaa. You are missing out on so much….
Thanks for your thoughts. I do agree with much you have said and in particular that India teaches you humility. That it does and its one of the reasons I love the country and have chosen to move here.
I certainly don’t believe I have superficial standards, and I also am not missing out on the real India. In my travels I am seeing and living all parts of the spectrum that is India and enjoying it thoroughly.
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Pretty interesting read and being an Indian guy in Oz now, i stumbled on this while trying to do the reverse (trying to meet an Oz girl) of what you had been doing. 🙂
Anyways, just to help you out, Dating scene in India is not pretty mature yet and the cultural aspect leaves a lot in gender equality still wanting.But i believe it’s changing in most metros. Every city in India has a different culture and Delhi( and Gurgaon) is one of the aggressive ones. This may bring in chauvinism and the pushy attitude. Mumbai and Bangalore are much better cities and have got a more laid back culture. Chennai is very conservative too. Don’t know much about Kolkata.
Wishing you all the best in your search 😉
Thanks for the advice Ravi, and glad you liked the blog. Good luck in your search, Australian women are a quite laid back.
Hi Rakhee, I enjoyed reading this post, and although I’m sure not all Indian men are like this, I have to agree to some extent with your observations. I have only been to India three times, never lived there for extended periods, but I did have the opportunity to notice how heavy is mother’s and family’s influence on people’s personal decisions. I think this is very sad, as sometimes family needs are different from people’s life choices, both in the working and in the personal sphere. I have also talked about this with Indians, men and women, and they say this is slowly changing, hopefully for the better 🙂
Thanks for your comments Angela.
I do find the family influence an interesting one. One of the things I love about India is the focus on family and communal good, but the westerner in me also struggles with it, and believes in the needs of the individual. It’s a very challenging balance, and I think there are pros and cons to both. Hopefully the change strikes a good balance between the two.
Also re-directed from Sharell’s blog: this is a great post. I’ve been living in Mumbai for a year and a half, and have had similar experiences in dating Indian men. It’s only natural to try, but I’ve found some of the cultural differences to be just too great to overcome. Thank you for the food for thought and for the empathy!
You’re welcome, it certainly helps to hear similar experiences.
haaa. yes.. i agree to what you have written to most extend… it all depends on how the man is brought up.. where he did his education.. living at home or with other bachelors in the hostel.. living in parent’s home during graduation does matter a lot. those are the years when you shape your personality.. more than 90% of grad schools in India are in cities and people end up doing doing grad in same city they live.. listening o their mom and dad’s advice everyday.
many may not agree to what I say.. indicating it as a too minor point.. but from my experience i have seen the difference..
of course there are many more..
Yes I agree, upbringing does have a huge influence on how someone thinks and behaves, it of course has influenced myself and my thinking too.
Dear Aussie girl,get off your high horse and get closer to reality.Your case seems to be of sour grapes.Since you didn’t manage to catch any mate of any nationality in cosmopoliton australlia you decided that you would jump over to india and be treated like a diva.Howver,like any other place,males do not like condescending females like you.So meet people with an open mind and heart and be humble.Then,maybe and just maybe some indian man may take pity on you and offer friendship.
Thanks for your comments. If you had read my post in the spirit which it was intended you would notice that I am not seeking a mate, but am merely interested in friendship. My goal is to be able to understand and appreciate people for who they are. I will continue to explore the differences with the hope of building long term friendships with members of both gender in my new home country.
Hmmm, I am not sure how to respond to this one. I am married to an Indian man for now 8 years and have an awesome marriage. To be honest he doesn’t fit the bill and many of my male friends don’t either. They are educated, well-read and well-traveled, can strike an interesting conversation and can definitely be a partner for life. I think the issues usually come when you look at India with the western ethos much like how we view the western world with Indian ethos. I find a lot of habits of western men and women highly deplorable. Of course, it doesn’t absolve the Indian men of his many misgivings. Yet a culture needs to be explored in a socio economic and education’s context. As a culture and more so the women in the culture start to gets educated it also starts to change behavior. In many a places in India like Maharashtra, Bengal, Northeast women are highly empowered and men are different. They are also the primary bread earners in the family. If you continue to filter India through the western eye you will really find a lot of flaws.. And then there is a difference in men in the city and in the town or village. A lot depends on his level of interaction with the females. In the town or village the closest a man gets to interacting with a woman is his mother, sisters or cousins. Talking to a strange woman is by far banned. And usually that explains the stares which is also part curiosity. Nt that I approve of this lack of interaction but may be at some level it makes life simpler. There is less peer pressure and end of the day you become more satisfied individuals and perhaps explains happiness in poverty. Okie, I am digressing a little but a society needs to be dissected as a whole and not as a single piece (perhaps the biggest difference b/w Indian and western culture), the difference of whole vs. the individual 🙂
Thanks Shilpi.
You make some great points, and I agree that it is necessary to look at the culture as a whole and see all spectrums. I am only just starting my journey in India, and hope to continue to explore and learn about the culture for as many angles as possible.
Also redirected from Sharell’s blog, I also found a warm loving Indian man, who doesn’t fit your description. However, before I met him, I thought there wasn’t a single decent available guy… in the whole universe ! 🙂
Don’t worry, Mr Right will eventually turn up if you keep believing in your lucky star (and keep your eyes open) 🙂
Is their anything like a Stereotypical Indian man?
How can any one make a slew of sweeping remarks on 0.6 billion people (1/10 th of the world population). There isn’t anything like a stereotypical Delhi man let alone a Stereotypical Indian man .A shop owner in old Delhi or a man on the street, like the stall owner or rickshaw driver. Can’t be kept in the same bracket as an educated, upwardly mobile corporate executive, with reasonable global exposure, sharing responsibilities with colleagues of both the genders and who knows taking orders form his boss form d opposite gender.
I would like to comment on your blog form latter’s perspective.
Arranged marriage:
Over the last 15 yrs, thx to liberalization and global exposure the Indian society and family structures have gone through a sea change, earlier a husband wife relationship was more of a master housekeeper relationship, now they are more equals both of them work and share responsibilities, the economic development has ensured that women are more empowered, independent and more assertive about what they want.
Now men r more comfortable in treating their spouses as friends rather than housekeepers. Go thru this link, u will understand what I m talking about
Mammas boyz:
Plead guilty as charged
Don’t we all take the views and get influenced by our close friends, then whats wrong in taking views of your mother as long as you make your own decisions and not let her run your life.
My two cents :
For every ogling, double timing, visa seeking pervert that you have come across there are gentlemen holding doors for their ladies or offering their seats in crowded buses and trains. So look out for the kind of man you are looking for and you will definitely find him. Remember there r more men in Delhi than whole of Australia….. lucky you 🙂
Thanks for your comments and the link.
It wasn’t my intention to stereotype, just relay my own personal experiences. I am more than happy to meet people who prove me wrong, and take your point, the numbers are certainly stcked in my favour here 🙂
Do numbers on an online forum really matter? Many decent Indian men I know of are not on any dating site. Try digging a little deeper rather than making sweeping generalizations. Good luck! 🙂
Thanks for your comment. I wasn’t making generalizations but rather speaking from what I have experienced.
I do agree with you that it about quality and not quantity.
Men! I haven’t lived in India, but I do know the type of guy you’re talking about as they exist in the expat community too. I’ve lived in Scotland and Egypt and have just finished dating a Scottish/Spanish guy who was also a mummy’s boy, as was another ex in Egypt. Mummy’s boys all over the world have got to be the worst! I think it sounds like molly coddling your sons in India is pretty prevalent hence the high concentration of such Indian guys.
Yes as I have said in the post, I don’t think Mummy’s boys are specific to India. Although boys are held in high esteem here in many families, it must be challenging to think otherwise if that is how you have been raised.
India is filled with nose pickers, crotch scratchers, public urinators and some serious starers. While I attribute the first three to men spending almost 23 and quarter hours a day outdoors, lack of steady water supply and perhaps the extreme humidity in most cities, my guess is the last one could be the result of a demented, molten brain that fused with the skull thereby affecting vision.
Facts apart, there are smart, independent and polite guys in India as well. I know at least one (and hence excluded charming and fit). I hope you have better luck forward in finding friendship and relationship of your choosing.
Happy times to you aussiegirl!
Thanks, and great to see someone else sticking up for the Indian man.
I feel your frustration, hon. Hope you meet some good guys soon 🙂
Cheers
When the moment is right – doesn’t matter where you are – everything will fall in place and you will find your match. But at times, when the opportunity peeks, you should have the courage to let go your inhibitions and just go for it with all your heart. Good luck.
Some sound advice, thanks.
Interesting comments and observations. I await future installments.
Wow Raks, atta girl, creating a little bit of controversy in the Indian dating world!
It is very interesting reading everyone’s comments and although I have never dated an Indian man I shall now be more prepared for their advances, or not, when I travel there next year.
Hello! I think I accidentally found one of the most amazing men in India! My fiancee is born, raised, and has never left India and I am born and raised in America – caucasion, not of India decent. We are getting married next month after over 4 years of courtship. I think he is not only the most decent, incredible Indian, but incredible human. We met by fate via orkut.com on accident (he was searching for childhood friend) and we connected over being very tall people. I think he’s incredible because of his
– 100% committment to our relationship and our future
– non-judgemental to other religions or interested in converting myself or others
– strong family ties and love for them
– faithfulness to his family, God, myself
– courage to do what is right and say what is right even when it is difficult
– willingness to learn and teach about different cultures and values
– not afraid of committment or to speak openly of our relationship, future marriage, and future children
– cleanliness and dedication to it
– honesty, kindness, affection
– patience with our relationship, (immigration issues)and a girl’s emotions 🙂
– goes above and beyond to show he cares
– totally desirable in every way
– hard working for waht he believes in (me & his family & our future)
– willingness to sacrifice for those he loves (after finishing his masters, he’ll move to America with me)
and he really does exist! And he’s 6’3″ Indian! 🙂 Could be an incredible mix of how he was raised by parents who married for LOVE (crazy thought in the early 80s – his mother’s parents even married for love in the 50s!) and did not have a mixed household (only mom, dad, sis, him – no in-laws lived with the family) and how they built their lives from marrying with only a suitcase between them to currently owning 2 flats in Delhi, how both parents worked and raised him, and in an open-minded household…. that’s the “pieces” that created my incredible Indian man.
Maybe this will give you hope…
Thanks for your comment, and great to hear you have found a good one and are happy. I have no doubt there are plenty of them, which is great.
Also directed here from Sharell’s blog, and looking forward to checking out the rest of yours…
I’ve got a wonderfully decent Indian man as a husband. However, he was quite fond of parting his hair on the side and combing it neatly before I got hold of him. An artifact of super-dorky IIT times. 🙂 I’m quite sure mine never peed in public or ogled and groped women, and afaik, all his other male relatives are equally decent. They do exist!
Another great story, thanks for sharing.
well if he studied in IIT he would not have the time or the avenues. IITs werent the best place to go to meet girls 🙁
and for all these reasons and more i am an indian woman who has married an aussie man. i will share your link on my blog, it is a great one!!
Thanks, I have also checked out your blog, its great.
I just now read your “About me” and as I suspected, you are older and trying to escape the western world and find yourself anew. To do that, you will have to be more conscious of how your western-centered thinking will make you very unappealing to most Indians. If you judge India according to pre-set ideas from the west, then you are not really in India. You might as well remain in the West. Assuming that you have had failed relationships in Australia, sometimes it is good to see the faults in ourselves instead of in everyone else but. Indian men can be loyal, incredible fathers, and very committed. You also have to meet them halfway.
I can see why the man who came to meet you brought along a friend. He probably sensed that you were interested in more and he was not. It’s not anything unique to Indian men; lots of men send indirect messages if they are not interested. Surely you have faced those?
Also, if you are in your late-30s, you will have to set your eyes on men in their mid-40s to mid-50s, if you want to have luck in landing a man.
Thanks for your comments.
I am not bent on dating or marrying an Indian man, as I have stated I am actually not interested in a relationship at all at present. I would however like to develop friendships and possibly relationships in my new homeland. I do of course accept that I am not perfect, and certainly accept my shortcomings and their contribution in my relationships.
Well, friendships are different in India. It’s disingenuous of you to say that you want friendship with Indian men, most of whom presumably will be in their 30s and 40s, and probably married or are looking to get married.
If you are looking for a man to hang out with, well, you are in the wrong country. Most Indians hang out with people of their same gender or they hang out with cousins and relatives of both genders.
Why aren’t you looking for friendships with women then? You are looking for a relationship, and you should be honest about that. If you want to get into a relationship through a prolonged dating stint that starts with casual friendship, then you are so completely in the wrong country.
If you want a relationship, ask around people to set you up. Meet possible suitors.
What you will find in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and these countries is how seriously these things are taken. The casual approach to matters of the heart are just not acceptable in India.
My recommendation might be for you to try to find an expat white guy in India. Most of the expat white guys are scummy, looking for an easy lay, or exploitative and with issues, but if you want friendships with men and someone to hang out with, that would be your best best.
Basically, there is nothing to decode. Most cultures around the world produce similar men. From Japan to Korea to Libera to Uganda to Nicaragua, the world is patriarchal, and men behave badly. In the West, men have benefited from the women’s lib movement. Now they can get what they wanted like casual sex without needing to make commitments. Either way, they continue to behave badly. Indian men are not unusual, they are the norm.
Typical ad-hominem. Don’t over-intellectualize to eschew truth in a point. I am an Indian man, born and raised in India. Educated in a public school and travelled by bus for the longest time. I’ve never been to the west. Yet, i’ll say, every single thing she says is true. So, little point in getting sanctimonious and engaging in character assault. But again, that’s what we Indians do best when the ugly truth is pointed out to us.
Why if you were raised in Australia you so bent on finding an Indian man to date/marry? Regardless of the fact that you are of Indian descent, you are Australian. Culture molds people more than one ethnic heritage. Why don’t you date White men or Indian men who has grown up with similar experiences in the West?
Your conclusions about why Indian men are superficial, and the causation you offer of arranged marriages, etc., are frankly ridiculous. Travel to any part of central and South Africa, and you will find men publicly urinating and spitting. It’s a part of third world existence. Heck, go to South /Latin America and you will find similar behavior.
Try dating an Italian man and see how mollycoddled they are by their mothers. Try dating an orthodox Jewish man or a Korean or Japanese man and see how their mothers put Indian mothers to shame in terms of protective interference.
Maybe the issue is you? How old are you? If you haven’t been able to find anyone to date, maybe instead of moving to a new, alien culture, you could head back to Australia, invest in some therapy, and try to figure out why you have had such a hard time dating men of any background? I say this kindly, really.
I see many Indian-western women fed up with “western” men and their hookup culture and very lax approach to monogamy and marriage. They think more eastern cultures will allow them to find better partners. Well, that’s silly thinking. There are many western men who are monogamous. Find one who shares your background and experiences and try to make that work.
Well I’m a decent Indian guy who’s reasonably educated in India and has taken pains to adjust to the standards that I was surrounded by in the United States.
Going to go out on a limb and actually respond to your original question out of curiosity. Yes. I am a decent Indian male and I exist in real life.
Cheers,
Thanks so much for standing up for yourself and your comrades 🙂
Can’t deny to this..
Yes, Indian men does lack of basic manners like outdoor urination, spitting, the scratching and occasional burbs and farts. I think its part of the culture or should i say upbringing.. Something that you learn from your parents..
Love the post. Will surely lead him towards you if i find any Indian men who breaks the stereotype.
Yes, I agree upbringing has a lot to do with how we behave into adulthood. Thanks and glad you enjoyed the post.
Directed here from White Indian Housewife’s blog… I’m an American (British/German descent) and dated a man who grew up in Tamil Nadu and he had none of these negative traits, save the cowering. What ultimately ended things was his refusal to communicate. He was terribly inconsistent about our status as a couple, and when I would try and sort things out or gain some kind of understanding of how to negotiate our differing assumptions and norms about relationships, he would shut down. It was unlike anything I’ve seen before. Not wanting to make assumptions about his background, I would literally ask him about his silence… “Is this happening because it’s a personal quirk? Because you’re a Scientist? Because you’re Indian?” Of course those questions drew no reaction at all, which was all the more frustrating. I adored his mind, his humor, his kindness and his values (and his eyes) – but oy! The maddening silence! How does one make a long-term relationship work with such a refusal to address even the smallest issues head-on. I suppose it’s validating to read that relationship cowardice is a shared cultural trait – but what a depressing state of affairs.
Thanks for your comment Sarah. I also find it helpful to read others stories, and thankfully I have seen some great positive ones today too.
Great blog and very interesting comments.
Tamils who have emigrated abroad belong to academically brilliant, but socially and culturally few decades or centuries behind. They are unable to reconcile between their background and their present existence. So while in a social or interpersonal context they would be great to deal with (intelligent, humorous, knowledgable), the equality or respect that is expected in the western countries would be totally missing. He would not be able to imagine a normal husband wife married relationship with a foreigner if it is placed in an Indian environment- say a village or a small town in Tamil Nadu. He would be preplexed and retreat into silence- a non committal approach which I can understand and which you would be baffled with.
If the above sounds too practical or unkind, my apologies. But this is my reading of the situation. It could be totally wrong, but still worth putting in as a comment.
Would welcome feedback.
Thanks for your comments. Interesting thoughts about your culture in particular, I have had little exposure to Southerners thus far, but perhaps other readers have and wish to comment.
Hi, I am an Indian woman married to an Aussie and living in Australia. I have spent most of my life in India and unfortunately I agree with what you have mentioned about Indian men. I used to be really scared of marrying an Indian man, who would’nt care to treat me equally. My father treated me and my sister with love and respect and he wanted the best for us.I guess deep down he had the same fears and therefore agreed to let me marry the man I loved. I think its time Indian men learnt to respect women or else they will be left with very little choice in the relationship department.
Thanks for your comment. I am glad to hear you have found happiness.
hello–got redirected here through the White Indian Housewife blog and your luck seems to be terrible [with Indian men that is]!
I’m a Canadian of South Asian origin and my fiance’s an Indian man [an Indian man born and brought up in India] and he doesn’t fit your stereotype, and neither do his friends for that matter. Actually, from what I’ve seen of Indians in India, they’re far…cooler, sophisticated, interesting, well traveled and all aroud fun than those in the US [where I grew up] who were more into studying all the time and pleasing their insanely religious parents (who isolated themselves into the ‘brown’ community).
I’m surprised that you got asked about your citizenship as most of the Indians my age, that I’ve met here, have no intention of leaving (and most have foreign degrees so they have lived abroad and experienced life there) because they don’t find life dynamic enough over there.
I, too, live in Delhi (more like Gurgaon) at the moment and there are so many places where you can meet well dressed Indian men! I suggest just heading out and meeting people instead of using the internet (especially shaadi.com)!
Thanks for your comment. I will definitely be getting out more (I haven’t been on Shaadi for four years now), and look forward to meeting more great Indian men.
This post is fantastic! 8) I think it’s worthy of being featured in a post on my blog.
Thanks so much Sharell. You are welcome to feature the post on your blog 🙂
As a gay man who traveled in India back in the 90’s I was groped innumerable times whilst quietly going about my business, and propositioned for sex by men who just walked up to me on the street and asked for it, not to mention the dancing Hedras whom it literally had to beat off with a stick on a number of occasions. It was extremely difficult dealing with this stuff, even as a man. That’s why I take my hat off to you, Rakhee.
Thanks so much for your honesty and sharing your experiences Jason. I can’t believe how much worse it was for you, I really feel for you.
Hehe you have a long way to go yet it seems. lots of prejudices to come across yet.
Yes I do, but I am in it for the long haul 🙂
Initially i was laughing, then I paused for a while as my fellow comrades are getting bashed below the belt I can’t just sit and enjoy. But, one thing for sure you got plethora of talent. And they way you narrate is extremely comfortable and easy to read. I like every bit of it as its true to our nature. Eagerly waiting for your next post 🙂
Thanks for your comments. Glad you enjoyed the post 🙂
Very interesting! I know a lot of ex-pat Indian men in America through cricket. They seem to be more evolved, but then again I usually see them on the cricket pitch, where I am the only woman. I’ve also noticed that they seem to treat white women (me and the wives of other players) differently than Indian women.
Also, one of my best friends is Punjabi. She has an arranged marriage that seems very happy and stable and built on equality. However, her family is upper class and her husband has lived most of his life in the US. So yeah, I think there is a bug cultural divide there. Also, my Punjabi friend can’t stand the way women are treated in India and half if the reason she agreed to her marriage was because it meant she could move to the US.
Thanks for this post! 🙂
Thanks for the comment and the insight of your experiences. I have hope that there will be many good ones, I just haven’t come across them yet
What you said about arranged marriage struck a chord. I leaves a lot of Indian men and women half-baked when it comes to having a balanced relationship with the opposite sex.
I imagine it does. But do you think the good outweighs the bad with arranged marriages?
Another great post and just what I needed to take my mind off myself! I found myself nodding my head when I read this and even though I’ve never been to India and don’t know any Indian men on a personal level, everything I’ve read about India fits with what you are saying. Eeeep! What hope for the future of gender relations and companionate partnerships between men and women? And what does it tell us about gay men in India and how they must live. The mind boggles.
A very interesting point, I have no idea about gay culture here at all, but suspect it’s a whole other minefield to navigate.
Another aspect of Indian Men that is often Criticized and made fun of, is them being Mama’s Boy. Well, I would again go deep Into the History and Intellectual lane to explain this often mocked aspect of ours.
I do not Understand why being Mama’s boy, is such a turn off? though i am not one, unluckily. would have loved to be though. This nature of an Indian Mother and son alike, stems out of Social and Economic insecurity that Prevailed and Prevails even now In India. Where Parents prefer their sons to support them when they themselves become Incapable to earn a living. In Contrast to the European Society where economy is strong and Senior Citizens can live their Last days alone and in peace thanks to various Unemployment pensions and grants by the government, Indian Oldies do not have that privilege even Now. Thus, Indian parents groom their Kids to be Family Oriented rather than Loners and recluses who sit on a booze train, screw at will (not making a generalization here, no offense) and pay their ailing parents an odd visit. Here In India, Kids are their Parent’s Insurance for when they are In Need of economic, social and Physical Help.
Though a Party Animal Myself . . . and Not a Mama’s Boy, BUT i would always stick with My Parents in thick and Thin . . . if that grossly classifies me as a Mama’s or Pappa’s boy and jeopardizes my Chances of getting along with a Foreign beauty then so be it. I would take my Chances and hope for the best. lol :p
Again, No Offense was ever Intended Lady . .
Thanks
Vichitra Veer
Loving your parents does not make you a “Mummy’s Boy”. Holding your mother up as a standard to how other women should treat you is…. Mother’s have a special place in everyone’s lives, but translating that relationship into a romantic one is not healthy (in my opinion).
I know of one, we have been coworkers, which turned into friendship, which turned into love. While my fiance loves his mother fiercely and tells me he had a rough time cooking a meal when he first left his country as a young adult, he now serves up a mean curry, is responsible, a hard worker, puts his loved ones before himself, and is an amazing friend and lover. My large and very aussie family adores him. His Indian friends are really friendly and respectful, too. Don’t lose hope of meeting an Indian man of substance!
It’s also worth mentioning that every no two people I have ever met are the same; hence no two Indian people I have ever met are the same. I haven’t been to India yet, but through personal experience, people are just people.
Its great to hear happy endings.
And yes I agree, no two people are the same.